Summon Monster Monsters

[Brother MacLaren]

They are SM IX creatures. At 18th lvl+ a free raise dead (with a level loss) isn't a big deal or even desireable necessarily.

No, the Movanic Deva is SM VII. Available at Sor/Wiz 13. And while a free Raise Dead is not a big deal for PCs -- it's 5% of the wealth at that level -- this is more like 15% of the wealth for an NPC. There's a lot of world-changing impacts when you remove economic constraints on Raise Dead.

The other thing I'd add is that flexibility IS power. When you expand the summon list for these spells -- even going so far as to allow mixing and matching of the templates -- you increase the power of the spell. And Summon spells were already quite powerful. A default good-aligned cleric CANNOT get a creature with reach for a Summon IV, nor can he get a trip-monster. Let him apply "Celestial" to animals as he likes, and suddenly he's got the battlefield control abilities he didn't have before. He has new capabilities, and hasn't lost any, so his power has increased.

 

[Wolfwood2]

I have just finished my Cleric and well I have a question. The cleric I have has the Summoning Domain and domain spontaneity. So what are good monsters that are not in the PHB as summon monster monsters that are good and what level are they cast at?

If you have a link to all the extra monsters that can be summoned with Summon Monster that would be awesome.

Pretty much anything with the fiendish template in the core rules list, you could logically slap the celestial template on it instead and turn it into a good summon.

 

[Nail]

He has new capabilities, and hasn't lost any, so his power has increased.

Until his enemies invest in a 1st level spell: Protection from Evil/Good/Etc.

 

[IanB]

Until his enemies invest in a 1st level spell: Protection from Evil/Good/Etc.

Irrelevant. That brake on the summoner's power existed before the lists were expanded. "Well, so what if druids now have fireball as a level one spell, their enemies just need to cast protection from energy!"

(I have been slowly working on a project to narrow and spruce up the summoning lists for my own campaign, but it is sloooooow going.)

 

[Brother MacLaren]

Until his enemies invest in a 1st level spell: Protection from Evil/Good/Etc.

It takes an action, it can be beat by SR (unlikely, but possible for summoned creatures), it can be bypassed by ranged attacks or spell-like abilities (especially for the new outsiders introduced in MMII-IV and FF), the enemy doesn't always have that spell ready, the enemy doesn't always know what alignment they're up against, and, as IanB implied, the PHB summon lists were initially balanced with this defense in mind.

Summon Monster is already a very powerful spell in the right circumstances, though counters exist to make it not overpowering.

 

[Amazing Triangle]

Until his enemies invest in a 1st level spell: Protection from Evil/Good/Etc.

This can be countered by summoning the "good" monster for its buff spells, and the Neutral Earth elemental or his buddy the Iron Golem from PHB2.

The SM IX with raise dead is powerful but don't summons vanish if the caster dies? If so then the Caster can only raise his friends and never himself.

If there are any other monsters to add to the list feel free to add them I would love new choices.

 

[Nail]

The SM IX with raise dead is powerful but don't summons vanish if the caster dies?

Nope.

This misconception pops up all the time about spells duration. I wonder why.....

Spell duration is not dependent on how long the caster lives, unless the spell has a duration of "concentration". This isn't like the movies, where if you kill the BBEG mage, all of his bad magic is reversed.

 

[Infiniti2000]

The SM IX with raise dead is powerful but don't summons vanish if the caster dies? If so then the Caster can only raise his friends and never himself.

I think you have this slightly confused with this rule: "When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire." This is a summoned creature caster.