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Summon Monster Monsters

Amazing Triangle

First Post
I have just finished my Cleric and well I have a question. The cleric I have has the Summoning Domain and domain spontaneity. So what are good monsters that are not in the PHB as summon monster monsters that are good and what level are they cast at?

If you have a link to all the extra monsters that can be summoned with Summon Monster that would be awesome.
 

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Nazhkandrias

First Post
You know, if your DM supports homebrew and you have some knowledge of monster creation, some of the best monsters are the ones you or your DM create yourselves! Just be sure to get approval on anything you want to homebrew. Some good guidelines for monster creation can be found in the back of the Monster Manual.
 

Plane Sailing

Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
Amazing Triangle said:
I have just finished my Cleric and well I have a question. The cleric I have has the Summoning Domain and domain spontaneity. So what are good monsters that are not in the PHB as summon monster monsters that are good and what level are they cast at?

Under normal circumstances you can't summon any creatures that are not on the list in the PHB. I don't remember seeing any additional lists of summonable creatures, but I've not got the most recent magic books, so there might be something new in there I suppose.

I've not seen any mechanics for assessing what level a summonable creature should be for the purposes of adding to a list either.

Planar Ally is the one for carte blanche extra-planar creatures.
 

mvincent

Explorer
Plane Sailing said:
I don't remember seeing any additional lists of summonable creatures
In Dragon magazine; I've seen alternate lists (i.e. where every creature is different) for the Dark Sun setting.
 

Infiniti2000

First Post
Amazing Triangle said:
I was thinking monsters from Fiend Folio, Monster Manual 2-4, maybe even other books...
Yeah, and post #10 gives you that. That includes all the monsters that those books explicitly state can be summoned.
 

Amazing Triangle

First Post
Infiniti2000 said:
Summon Monster I
Any: Celestial, Fiendish, Axiomatic, Anarchic, or Equitus (see http://darkwater.pbwiki.com/Equitus)

(CR 1/6, MM): monkey, raven
(CR ¼, MM): owl
(CR ⅓, MM): dire rat, dog, giant fire beetle, hawk
(CR ½, MM): badger, medium monstrous centipede, porpoise, small monstrous scorpion, small monstrous spider, small viper
(CR 1, MM): octopus


Summon Monster II
Any: Celestial, Fiendish, Axiomatic, Anarchic, or Equitus (see http://darkwater.pbwiki.com/Equitus)

(CR ½, MM): eagle
(CR 1, MM): giant bee, large monstrous centipede, medium monstrous scorpion, medium monstrous spider, medium shark, medium viper, riding dog, squid, wolf
(CR 2, MM): giant bombardier beetle

LN: formian worker (CR ½, MM), clockwork mender (CR ½, MMIV)
N: varoot [nerra] (CR 1, FF)
LE: lemure [devil] (CR 1, MM)
CE: kaorti (CR 1, FF), howler wasp (CR 1, MMIV, chaos domain only)

Summon Monster III
Any: Celestial, Fiendish, Axiomatic, Anarchic, or Equitus (see http://darkwater.pbwiki.com/Equitus)

(CR 2, MM): black bear, boar, crocodile, constrictor snake, dire badger, dire weasel, hippogriff, large viper, wolverine
(CR 2+1, MM): ape, bison, dire bat, huge monstrous centipede

NG: celestial pseudodragon (CR 1, MM)
LN: azer (CR 2, MM)
N: any small elemental (CR 1, MM)
LE: hell hound (CR 3, MM), imp [devil] (CR 2, MM)
NE: vargouille (CR 2, MM)
CE: dretch [demon] (CR 2, MM), windrazor (CR 1, MMIV)

Summon Monster IV
Any: Celestial, Fiendish, Axiomatic, Anarchic, or Equitus (see http://darkwater.pbwiki.com/Equitus)

(CR 2+1, MM): large monstrous spider, large shark
(CR 3+1, MM): dire wolf, giant praying mantis, giant wasp, huge viper, lion

LG: lantern archon (CR 2, MM), celestial giant owl (CR 4, MM), celestial giant eagle (CR 4, MM)
NG: celestial giant owl (CR 4, MM), celestial giant eagle (CR 4, MM)
CG: celestial giant owl (CR 4, MM), celestial giant eagle (CR 4, MM)
LN: formian warrior (CR 3, MM)
N: any mephit (CR 3, MM/Sandstorm), kalareem [nerra] (CR 3, FF), droplet [aoa] (CR 3, FF), small storm elemental (CR 2, MMIII)
CN: magmin (CR 3, MM)
LE: bloodbag imp/euphoric imp/futto imp [devil] (CR 3, FF)
NE: yeth hound (CR 3, MM), skeroloth [yugoloth] (CR 3, FF), voor [yugoloth] (CR 4, MMIV)
CE: howler (CR 3, MM), skulvyn [demon] (CR 4, MM), wrackspawn (CR 3, MMIV)

Summon Monster V
Any: Celestial, Fiendish, Axiomatic, Anarchic, or Equitus (see http://darkwater.pbwiki.com/Equitus)

(CR 3+1, MM): deinonychus, dire ape, large monstrous scorpion
(CR 4+1, MM): brown bear, dire boar, dire wolverine, giant crocodile, giant stag beetle, griffon, sea cat, tiger
(CR 4+2, MM): huge shark

LG: hound archon (CR 4, MM), dwarf ancestor (CR 6, MMIV, cleric of Moradin only)
CG: celestial pegasus (CR 4, MM)
N: any medium elemental (CR 3, MM)
LE: achaierai (CR 5, MM), bearded devil [barbazu] (CR 5, MM)
NE: shadow mastiff (CR 5, MM)

Summon Monster VI
Any: Celestial, Fiendish, Axiomatic, Anarchic, or Equitus (see http://darkwater.pbwiki.com/Equitus)

(CR 4+2, MM): polar bear, rhinoceros
(CR 5+2, MM): dire lion, giant constrictor snake, huge monstrous spider, orca whale
(CR 6+2, MM): gargantuan monstrous centipede
(CR 7+2, MM): elasmosaurus

CG: bralani [eladrin] (CR 6, MM)
LN: winged warrior [formian] (CR 6, FF)
CN: mud slaad (CR 6, FF)
N: any large elemental (CR 5, MM), janni [genie] (CR 4, MM), sillit [nerra] (CR 6, FF), medium storm elemental (CR 4, MMIII), inferno spider (CR 8, MMIV, fire domain only)
CN: chaos beast (CR 7, MM)
LE: chain devil [kyton] (CR 6, MM), xill (CR 6, MM)
NE: corruptor of fate [yugoloth] (CR 5, MMIV)
CE: wind scythe (CR 4, MMIV)

Summon Monster VII
Any: Celestial, Fiendish, Axiomatic, Anarchic, or Equitus (see http://darkwater.pbwiki.com/Equitus)

(CR 6+1, MM): girallon
(CR 6+2, MM): baleen whale, megaraptor
(CR 7+2, MM): elephant, huge monstrous scorpion
(CR 8+2, MM): giant octopus

LG: movanic deva (CR 9, FF), justice archon (CR 6, MMIV)
NG: avoral [guardinal] (CR 9, MM), movanic deva (CR 9, FF)
CG: djinni [genie] (CR 5, MM), movanic deva (CR 9, FF)
LN: formian taskmaster (CR 7, MM), aramadon [formian] (CR 8, FF)
N: any huge elemental (CR 7, MM), invisible stalker (CR 7, MM), large storm elemental (CR 6, MMIII)
CN: red slaad (CR 7, MM)
LE: bone devil [osyluth] (CR 9, MM), desert devil [avatar] ?? (CR 6, Sandstorm)
NE: belker (CR 6, MM), piscoloth [yugoloth] (CR 9, FF)
CE: babau [demon] (CR 6, MM), arrow [demon] (CR 7, MMIII)

Summon Monster VIII
Any: Celestial, Fiendish, Axiomatic, Anarchic, or Equitus (see http://darkwater.pbwiki.com/Equitus)

(CR 7+2, MM): cachalot whale, dire bear
(CR 8+2, MM): dire tiger, gargantuan monstrous spider, tyrannosaurus
(CR 9+2, MM): colossal monstrous centipede, giant squid, triceratops

CG: lillend (CR 7, MM)
LN: zelekhut [inevitable] (CR 9, MM)
N: any greater elemental (CR 9, MM), huge storm elemental (CR 8, MMIII)
CN: blue slaad (CR 8, MM)
LE: hellcat (CR 7, MM), maelephant (CR 10, FF)
CE: vrock [demon] (CR 9, MM)

Summon Monster IX
Any: Celestial, Fiendish, Axiomatic, Anarchic, or Equitus (see http://darkwater.pbwiki.com/Equitus)

(CR 9+2, MM): dire shark, roc
(CR 10+2, MM): gargantuan monstrous scorpion
(CR 11+2, MM): colossal monstrous spider

LG: couatl (CR 10, MM), monadic deva (CR 12, FF)
NG: leonal [guardinal] (CR 12, MM), monadic deva (CR 12, FF)
CG: monadic deva (CR 12, FF), noble djinni [genie, no wishes] (CR 8, MM)
LN: observer [formian] (CR 11, MM)
N: any elder elemental (CR 11, MM), greater storm elemental (CR 10, MMIII)
CN: green slaad (CR 9, MM)
LE: barbed devil [hamatula] (CR 11, MM)
NE: night hag (CR 9, MM), farastu [demodand] (CR 11, FF)
CE: bebilith [demon] (CR 10, MM), hezrou [demon] (CR 11, MM)

I wanted to point out that the Monadic Deva is Immune to fire, electricity, cold, acid and death effects...A few nice perks if you ask me. Just seems like so few from FF, MM2, MM3, and MM4...
 

Amazing Triangle said:
I wanted to point out that the Monadic Deva is Immune to fire, electricity, cold, acid and death effects...A few nice perks if you ask me. Just seems like so few from FF, MM2, MM3, and MM4...
Both the Monadic Deva and the Movanic Deva have Raise Dead as a spell-like ability (therefore not costing 5,000 gp). This is beyond the power of the greatest celestials on the PHB list, so it looks to me like the FF additions to the Summon list is major power creep.

Planar Allies are decided by your deity, not you, if I understand correctly. If your cleric normally sends a Movanic Deva as its Lesser Planar Ally, you'd get Raise Dead for 600 GP and 100 XP starting at level 7.
 

Rackhir

First Post
Brother MacLaren said:
Both the Monadic Deva and the Movanic Deva have Raise Dead as a spell-like ability (therefore not costing 5,000 gp). This is beyond the power of the greatest celestials on the PHB list, so it looks to me like the FF additions to the Summon list is major power creep.

Planar Allies are decided by your deity, not you, if I understand correctly. If your cleric normally sends a Movanic Deva as its Lesser Planar Ally, you'd get Raise Dead for 600 GP and 100 XP starting at level 7.

They are SM IX creatures. At 18th lvl+ a free raise dead (with a level loss) isn't a big deal or even desireable necessarily.
 

Rackhir said:
They are SM IX creatures. At 18th lvl+ a free raise dead (with a level loss) isn't a big deal or even desireable necessarily.
No, the Movanic Deva is SM VII. Available at Sor/Wiz 13. And while a free Raise Dead is not a big deal for PCs -- it's 5% of the wealth at that level -- this is more like 15% of the wealth for an NPC. There's a lot of world-changing impacts when you remove economic constraints on Raise Dead.

The other thing I'd add is that flexibility IS power. When you expand the summon list for these spells -- even going so far as to allow mixing and matching of the templates -- you increase the power of the spell. And Summon spells were already quite powerful. A default good-aligned cleric CANNOT get a creature with reach for a Summon IV, nor can he get a trip-monster. Let him apply "Celestial" to animals as he likes, and suddenly he's got the battlefield control abilities he didn't have before. He has new capabilities, and hasn't lost any, so his power has increased.
 
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Wolfwood2

Explorer
Amazing Triangle said:
I have just finished my Cleric and well I have a question. The cleric I have has the Summoning Domain and domain spontaneity. So what are good monsters that are not in the PHB as summon monster monsters that are good and what level are they cast at?

If you have a link to all the extra monsters that can be summoned with Summon Monster that would be awesome.

Pretty much anything with the fiendish template in the core rules list, you could logically slap the celestial template on it instead and turn it into a good summon.
 

Nail

First Post
Brother MacLaren said:
He has new capabilities, and hasn't lost any, so his power has increased.
Until his enemies invest in a 1st level spell: Protection from Evil/Good/Etc.
 

IanB

First Post
Nail said:
Until his enemies invest in a 1st level spell: Protection from Evil/Good/Etc.

Irrelevant. That brake on the summoner's power existed before the lists were expanded. "Well, so what if druids now have fireball as a level one spell, their enemies just need to cast protection from energy!"

(I have been slowly working on a project to narrow and spruce up the summoning lists for my own campaign, but it is sloooooow going.)
 

Nail said:
Until his enemies invest in a 1st level spell: Protection from Evil/Good/Etc.
It takes an action, it can be beat by SR (unlikely, but possible for summoned creatures), it can be bypassed by ranged attacks or spell-like abilities (especially for the new outsiders introduced in MMII-IV and FF), the enemy doesn't always have that spell ready, the enemy doesn't always know what alignment they're up against, and, as IanB implied, the PHB summon lists were initially balanced with this defense in mind.

Summon Monster is already a very powerful spell in the right circumstances, though counters exist to make it not overpowering.
 

Amazing Triangle

First Post
Nail said:
Until his enemies invest in a 1st level spell: Protection from Evil/Good/Etc.

This can be countered by summoning the "good" monster for its buff spells, and the Neutral Earth elemental or his buddy the Iron Golem from PHB2.

The SM IX with raise dead is powerful but don't summons vanish if the caster dies? If so then the Caster can only raise his friends and never himself.

If there are any other monsters to add to the list feel free to add them I would love new choices.
 

Nail

First Post
Amazing Triangle said:
The SM IX with raise dead is powerful but don't summons vanish if the caster dies?
Nope.

This misconception pops up all the time about spells duration. I wonder why.....

Spell duration is not dependent on how long the caster lives, unless the spell has a duration of "concentration". This isn't like the movies, where if you kill the BBEG mage, all of his bad magic is reversed.
 

Infiniti2000

First Post
Amazing Triangle said:
The SM IX with raise dead is powerful but don't summons vanish if the caster dies? If so then the Caster can only raise his friends and never himself.
I think you have this slightly confused with this rule: "When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire." This is a summoned creature caster.
 

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