Summoned creatures identifying friend or foe

[Marius Delphus]

How would you play that if you were the DM?

If the Cleric didn't notice that it was his former ally to strike him, he still believes it's an ally. He says "I can bless on my party" (I assume that Bless works without needing to see...), since he still thinks the DG is in his party I think the Bless affects him too.

IMHO, the caster's perceptions always control the "ally/enemy" question as regards his/her spells (also see bardic music). If the caster *reasonably believes* a creature is his ally, his bless spell affects that creature.

(I'd argue bless works even if the caster can't see, as it affects all allies in a 50' burst centered on the caster; bursts include any targets the caster can't see and exclude any that have total cover from the center of the burst.)

 

[Li Shenron]

IMHO, the caster's perceptions always control the "ally/enemy" question as regards his/her spells (also see bardic music).

Yes, this is what I have been trying to say too

It is probably the easiest way to play it, which is itself quite a good thing. And also I think that at least the spells themselves would have even less possibility to choose on their own who to affect and who not.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Double Post.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Triple Post.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Quadruple Post.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

He says "I cast bless on my party"

No, he doesn't. He says "I cast Bless as a 50' radius burst, centred on me."

It affects all allies.

Let's say his Mystic Theurge brother had recently cast a Commune. The MT was informed that the cleric was about to be betrayed by a doppelganger. So after a quick Greater Scrying to pinpoint the location, he Teleport-Without-Errors in under a Greater Invisibility... just before the cleric casts Bless.

The MT is his brother. He's present for the sole purpose of saving the cleric's life. He is by any definition an ally.

But the cleric has no idea he is there.

Is he affected by the Bless?

Now, there's also a BBEG Mystic Theurge, who also teleported in earlier that round. He's used assorted spells to make himself look and sound exactly like the cleric's brother, but he's also invisible. The cleric has no idea he's there... but if the cleric did know he was there, he would think it was his beloved brother, there to save him from the doppelganger.

Is the BBEG affected by the Bless?

Remember, the cleric doesn't select individual targets; the spell affects all creatures of the specified type ("allies") within the area of the burst.

-Hyp.

 

[Marius Delphus]

The MT is his brother. ... Is he affected by the Bless?

I'd say yes.

Is the BBEG affected by the Bless?

I'd say no, not until he'd revealed himself to the caster and begun his masquerade. He's not *in fact* an ally (something that the *real* brother benefits from) and the caster has no reason to consider him an ally (something he *would* benefit from were it the case, IMHO).

IOW, you can't cast bless as a friend-finder (anyone within 50' not emanating an Enchantment aura after the spell goes off must be an enemy in disguise!), something that hasn't been brought up yet but which strikes me as another possible consideration.

 

[Hypersmurf]

IOW, you can't cast bless as a friend-finder (anyone within 50' not emanating an Enchantment aura after the spell goes off must be an enemy in disguise!), something that hasn't been brought up yet but which strikes me as another possible consideration.

Actually, I brought up using Bane as an enemy-finder in post four of the thread

-Hyp.

 

[Particle_Man]

Interesting...my personal take would be to base everything on the caster's or attacker's belief, at the time the event happens (the spell being cast, one attacking, etc.)

So, the spellcaster only can affect allies that she knows about, and if an assassin is posing as an ally and fools the caster, the assassin gets the benefits of being an "ally".

If invisible/otherwise undetected folk are around, they don't get any benefits from being an ally or an enemy, since the caster does not know about them. They could still be caught in the range of spells like fireball by accident, though.

Summoned creatures would attack those the caster thought to be an enemy at the time the spell was cast, unless the caster can give orders otherwise later on.

One can't designate others as flankers. That would take both you attacking and believing the other is threatening with intent to possibly attack, and the other threatening with intent to possibly attack (even if only by Aoo) and believing you are attacking. So if someone is invisible and you don't know about them, you don't get the flanking bonus. But if you do know about them, you do get the flanking bonus.

Just my take on it, and I could be radically wrong.

 

[Hypersmurf]

It does appear they've changed the wording of flanking in 3.5, from "an ally" to "a creature friendly to you".

Which is somewhat more clear... and precludes the demon from providing a flanking bonus for the eladrin against the devil, because while the demon may be willing to be a temporary ally, he's certainly not friendly to the eladrin...

-Hyp.