Sunder rules

[Oryan77]

What are the rules regarding Sunder when a bow is involved in the attempt?

Does a bow take any kind of penalty in the opposed attack roll? I thought I read that a bow takes a -4 to the opposed roll but in the PHB it doesn't mention a penalty with bows. Did I mix this penalty up with another melee tactic or is this mentioned somewhere else?

Also, Sunder says that a 2-handed weapon gains a +4 bonus on the opposed roll. A trident is a 1-handed weapon but they seem more like 2-handed weapons (and I believe Sahuagin use them 2-handed). Would a trident get a +4 bonus?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Does a bow take any kind of penalty in the opposed attack roll? I thought I read that a bow takes a -4 to the opposed roll but in the PHB it doesn't mention a penalty with bows. Did I mix this penalty up with another melee tactic or is this mentioned somewhere else?

You're thinking about Disarm checks:
If the targeted item isn’t a melee weapon, the defender takes a –4 penalty on the roll.

Also, Sunder says that a 2-handed weapon gains a +4 bonus on the opposed roll. A trident is a 1-handed weapon but they seem more like 2-handed weapons (and I believe Sahuagin use them 2-handed). Would a trident get a +4 bonus?

A trident - just like a longsword - is a one-handed weapon. It can be wielded in one hand, or in two hands.

A spear - just like a greatsword - is a two-handed weapon. It requires two hands to wield effectively.

A two-handed weapon gains a +4 bonus on Sunder checks.

A spear or a greatsword, therefore, gains a +4 bonus to Sunder checks. A trident or a longsword does not.

This is according to the rules found in the Player's Handbook.

Just to confuse the matter, the FAQ says "The designations on the tables are only for convenience", and "A longsword wielded in two hands is a two-handed weapon". To me, this shows that whoever wrote the answer hasn't wrapped their head around the 3.5 sizing system. (In 3E, a weapon wielded in two hands gained a +4 bonus to an opposed roll to resist a Disarm. In 3.5, a two-handed weapon gains a +4 bonus to all Disarm rolls, offensive or defensive. It reads to me like when the FAQ answer was written, someone was trying to hold on to the 3E rule despite the revision...)

For what it's worth, the last time I queried CustServ about this, they said "We're in the process of trying to get that FAQ answer changed or removed". But that was a while ago, and it hasn't happened yet!

-Hyp.

 

[frankthedm]

What are the rules regarding Sunder when a bow is involved in the attempt?

Does a bow take any kind of penalty in the opposed attack roll? I thought I read that a bow takes a -4 to the opposed roll but in the PHB it doesn't mention a penalty with bows. Did I mix this penalty up with another melee tactic or is this mentioned somewhere else?

Also, Sunder says that a 2-handed weapon gains a +4 bonus on the opposed roll. A trident is a 1-handed weapon but they seem more like 2-handed weapons (and I believe Sahuagin use them 2-handed). Would a trident get a +4 bonus?

A trident could be sundered, though it could not be used to sunder.

I am of the opinion a bow should be treated as a carried object rather than a weapon since ranged weapons are not listed with a handedness, rather they have the hands needed to use in their descriptions.

Sunder

You can use a melee attack with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon to strike a weapon or shield that your opponent is holding. If you’re attempting to sunder a weapon or shield, follow the steps outlined here. (Attacking held objects other than weapons or shields is covered below.)

Step 1
Attack of Opportunity. You provoke an attack of opportunity from the target whose weapon or shield you are trying to sunder. (If you have the Improved Sunder feat, you don’t incur an attack of opportunity for making the attempt.)

Step 2
Opposed Rolls. You and the defender make opposed attack rolls with your respective weapons. The wielder of a two-handed weapon on a sunder attempt gets a +4 bonus on this roll, and the wielder of a light weapon takes a -4 penalty. If the combatants are of different sizes, the larger combatant gets a bonus on the attack roll of +4 per difference in size category.

Step 3
Consequences. If you beat the defender, roll damage and deal it to the weapon or shield. See Table: Common Armor, Weapon, and Shield Hardness and Hit Points to determine how much damage you must deal to destroy the weapon or shield.

If you fail the sunder attempt, you don’t deal any damage.

Sundering a Carried or Worn Object
You don’t use an opposed attack roll to damage a carried or worn object. Instead, just make an attack roll against the object’s AC. A carried or worn object’s AC is equal to 10 + its size modifier + the Dexterity modifier of the carrying or wearing character. Attacking a carried or worn object provokes an attack of opportunity just as attacking a held object does. To attempt to snatch away an item worn by a defender rather than damage it, see Disarm. You can’t sunder armor worn by another character.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I am of the opinion a bow should be treated as a carried object rather than a weapon since ranged weapons are not listed with a handedness, rather they have the hands needed to use in their descriptions.

But the trident and bow are in the same boat, there.

A trident is not a slashing or bludgeoning weapon. A bow is not a slashing or bludgeoning weapon, nor is it a melee weapon. So neither can be used to sunder.

A trident is not a two-handed weapon, so it does not gain a +4 bonus. Nor is it a light weapon, so it does not take a -4 penalty.

A bow is not a two-handed weapon, so it does not gain a +4 bonus. Nor is it a light weapon, so it does not take a -4 penalty.

If the bow should be treated separately because it is neither a two-handed nor a light weapon, then so should the trident.

But the rules don't specify that Sunder only applies to light, one-handed, or two-handed weapons. A bow is a weapon. If someone is attempting to sunder your bow, they are striking a weapon their opponent is holding; thus, they follow step 1, step 2, step 3... not the carried or worn object rules.

-Hyp.