Sunder vs. Natural Weapons

[TarionzCousin]

Called shots, which is effectively what you're talking about, don't work very well in D&D combat. People always think it's a really cool idea until you start doing it to them, and they realize that there are more monsters who can eat any penalty you assign to such called shots like they were twinkies.

Monsters eat twinkies? This explains a lot, like how some monsters can get class levels and some can't.

I agree that allowing the sundering of natural weapons could easily lead to called shots.
Called shots is a mess. The hit point system just doesn't mesh well with it.

Let us know what your DM and other players think after a session or three.

 

[Balgus]

I think that sundering natural weapons is part of the rules. How do you explain "Arm of Nyr" from DotF. When else would a hero lose an arm and need a prosthetic?

Otherwise, why would you voluntarily give up an arm to buy this one?

 

[MarkB]

I think that sundering natural weapons is part of the rules. How do you explain "Arm of Nyr" from DotF. When else would a hero lose an arm and need a prosthetic?

During a situation outside the realm of normal combat rules, such as if it were removed during torture, or surgery.

Otherwise, why would you voluntarily give up an arm to buy this one?

They do seem awfully popular with some players.

 

[Balgus]

During a situation outside the realm of normal combat rules, such as if it were removed during torture, or surgery
They do seem awfully popular with some players.

That seems ... awfully anticlimactic for a hero. You go through 100,000 battles and fought million sof villians just to be done in by ... dun dun dun.... the surgeon - an evil mastermind who has killed with an Xacto knife and a stethoscope.... LOL

I hought my Barb could use that arm once- but my DM said it has to follow the same rules as any magic item in his game :
1 - cut off your arm
2 - roll. There is 50% that large magic shops have it and 20% smaller towns do...

Er... no thank you... i will stick to my arms...Barbs kinda useless without arms,... even for one encounter.

 

[Squire James]

A house feat I developed especially for this thread. I purposely limited it to mid-to-high level characters to keep limb-chopping from being a common occurrance before the Regenerate spell is available. There is also an alternate mechanic for severing limbs - the "Normal" option.

Sunder Limb [General]

You may strike at an opponent's limb to cripple the foe without necessarily killing him.

Prerequisites: BAB +9, Str 13+, Power Attack, Improved Sunder.

Benefit: As a standard action, you may attempt a single melee attack on an opponent's arm, leg, or similar appendage (this cannot be a limb required for survival, such as a neck or head). This attack is against the foe's full AC, and a -4 penalty applies to your attack. If you hit, you inflict normal damage or damage equal to 1/4 of the foe's maximum HP, whichever is less. If you inflict 1/4 of the foe's maximum HP, that limb is considered to be severed.

A severed limb (obviously) cannot function. A creature with a severed arm cannot use that limb's natural attack, a shield, an off-hand weapon, or a two-handed weapon unless he still has two or more arms still available. A creature with a severed leg is limited to 1/4 normal speed (or 1/2 normal if he still has three or more legs, or 3/4 normal if he still has five or more legs, or full movement if he still has seven or more legs) and must make a Balance check each round with a DC equal to movement in feet to avoid falling prone at the end of that movement. A creature with no legs can only move as a full-round action, and can only move 5 ft per round.

This feat has no additional benefit against monsters who have body parts normally vulnerable to Sunder, such as hydras. The DM must use discretion to determine the effects of limb loss other than arms and legs.

Normal: Without this feat, the character can sever an opponent's limb only as an alternate outcome to death on a coup de grace attack.

Special: A fighter may choose this feat as one of his fighter bonus feats.

 

[TarionzCousin]

A house feat I developed especially for this thread. I purposely limited it to mid-to-high level characters to keep limb-chopping from being a common occurrance before the Regenerate spell is available. There is also an alternate mechanic for severing limbs - the "Normal" option.

This looks like a very nice solution. Has it been used in your game(s)? How has it playtested?

 

[Nyeshet]

I have a different take on this.

In my games I use a Massive Damage Threshold = Con + (Hit Dice/2) [See Unearthed Arcana]. When a character takes massive damage, he/she must pass a Fort save to avoid a crippling injury. If THAT fails, he/she must pass an additional Fort save to avoid death.

The logic is that a crippling injury isn't as bad as death, so there's no additional hardship.

You could do the same thing with any Massive Damage Threshold, depending on how gritty you want things to be. Oh, and there are rules in the DMG for injuries to different body locations.

You know, that is an excellent idea. I'd probably modify it - have them state where they are trying to aim as they make the strike, and then having the nearest limb, etc potentially severed (or nearly as bad) upon a successful save vs massive damage (if massive damage actually occurred). Or maybe upon a failed save the limb is ruined and a second save is made to determine if death occurs - thus lessening the chance of death upon a failed save vs massive damage while still encuring a notable cost due to massive damage (the ruination of a limb).

Hmm, I'll need to think on this some more, but it certainly sounds like a good way of bringing severed limbs back into D&D (and thus allowing the Regeneration spell some actual use).

 

[MarkB]

That seems ... awfully anticlimactic for a hero. You go through 100,000 battles and fought million sof villians just to be done in by ... dun dun dun.... the surgeon - an evil mastermind who has killed with an Xacto knife and a stethoscope.... LOL

I hought my Barb could use that arm once- but my DM said it has to follow the same rules as any magic item in his game :
1 - cut off your arm
2 - roll. There is 50% that large magic shops have it and 20% smaller towns do...

Er... no thank you... i will stick to my arms...Barbs kinda useless without arms,... even for one encounter.

Well, you could always try to find a scroll of Regenerate for the party cleric first, just in case.

That, or take Improved Unarmed Strike.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

There are lots of monsters that do heaps of damage in melee. Called Shot: Neck will give an instant kill 5% of the time regardless of what penalty you apply.

I doubt that will be fun for the players.

There are game systems that allow for this kind of excitement. But D&D is purposefully designed with a different philosophy.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Strangely enough, even though we fought devils with pointy scorpion tails and had argued over the topic for a half hour before getting started, the minotaur never bothered to actually TRY to sunder a natural weapon.

My arguement was much along the lines of "once you establish I can try to cut off someones hand or horn then what keeps me from acid-balling their head off?" With a true-strike and an empower ready to dedicate to the job, I could be the cause of many headless bodies.

DS