D&D 4E Support from mainstream booksellers - Ended by 4e?

[Calico_Jack73]

I was at the Barnes & Noble at Merchant's Square in Williamsburg this past weekend and also in a Books-A-Million. Both had a great selection of current 3.5E books and modules. That got me to thinking... will mainstream booksellers like these cease to stock D&D (and other RPG) books when they get burned by the ending of 3.XE? The Borders near me usually carries a good stock of RPG books but I have noticed that usually they only get new books in to replace books that have been sold. From reading many of the discussions on this board it seems that a good percentage of players (including myself) will not be purchasing any more 3.XE books since they will be obsolete within the span of a year. If I am Borders, Barnes & Noble, or Books-a-Million I'd be kind of ticked to find that I've got stock that will basically sit on the shelves and not sell. Since their business doesn't depend on the sales of those titles I know that personally I'd probably not carry RPG titles anymore.
What about the FLGS? Their survival DEPENDS that the books that they purchase from the publisher not sit on the shelves and collect dust. I love my FLGS but as I said before I can't see spending my money on an obsolete system.

Thoughts?

 

[Pozatronic]

I'm not sure why you would think that major booksellers would stop carrying DnD books. I was working at a Borders during the change over from second to third edition, and it went off without a hitch. The only people who even noticed there was a change were the small number of role-players who actually worked there; all three of us. And honestly, do you think the executives at these companies even pay attention to what's going on in the rather small rpg hobby world? You'd be surprised at how many titles sit on the shelves without selling, all from various sections of the store. I can't speak for other stores, but Borders have monthly "pull sheets" of stock that hasn't sold. It's a simple fact of the industry. If anything, a new edition would only boost sales in this section, not cause a decrease.

That's my opinion, anyway.

 

[Reaper Steve]

I think 4E will be accompanied by a big push to the mainstream. I wouldn't be suprised if I saw it in Toys R' Us, Spencer's, and possibly Target. (Target gets lots of WotC exclusives...WotC may be building a rep w/ them.)

Do I think that MANY more people could potentially become D&Ders? Absolutely. But I also think it will never achieve mainstream 'hey look, all the cool kids play D&D' status.

 

[Glyfair]

Also, don't the booksellers get to return unsold books? I believe that's why you don't see anything but the major companies there, because no one else can handle the returns. In fact, I remember hearing that returns were one of the things that drove TSR under.

 

[bowbe]

In fact, I remember hearing that returns were one of the things that drove TSR under.

Correct.

As I got the story, when TSR was mostly under the control of E.G.G. the deal he had with distributors/retailers was that if they returned a book, they took more books of equal value in exchange, rather than repayment on books not sold.

Post E.G.G someone got sweet-talked into a different deal, whereby more cash was offered up front by the distribution chain, which would in the short term flush you with cash a pile of cash.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how this arrangement can bite you in the butt. Distributor buys 4000 copies sight unseen with an agreement that you will pay them back for each unsold copy. They sell only 1000 copies and you have to repay them the value of the 3000 that didn't sell.

Thus if you already spent the money on salaries, art, production of new product you are hosed. BTW those returned "unsold books" by law are supposed to have the cover ripped off and be "destroyed" in essence so no chance of re-selling them to a secondary market or have a fire sale to recoup the money you lost when the distributor came knocking for the return check.

Basically the overabundance of those expensive, limited utility faux leather kit books had TSR hemmoraging cash.

Anyhow thats more or less the story I've heard a few times around the campfire.

No doubt WOTC has a much "better" distribution deal, one where-by they can afford to eat the cost of returned books in exchange for 50,000 ish copies of each of any new core rulebooks at around $40 a pop.

Case

 

[M.L. Martin]

Basically the overabundance of those expensive, limited utility faux leather kit books had TSR hemmoraging cash.

Anyhow thats more or less the story I've heard a few times around the campfire.

From what I've heard, it was the returns on the novels--primarily their push into massive hardcover releases--that killed them more than any returns on the game material.

Given the number of TSR hardcovers I remember seeing in the bargain section at B. Dalton and other chains in the years leading up to and just after the collapse, that seems just as plausible.

 

[Atlatl Jones]

RPG books are such a miniscule part of their revenue that, even if they can't return them, they're not going to get "burned." Besides, consider how well the 4e core rulebooks will sell in the first few months that they're out. Book stores will go from selling a trickle of RPG books every month to comparatively massive sales of the cores, with increased sales of the sourcebooks that come out afterward. Few people are interested in the next "complete warrior II" type sourcebooks not because 3.x is supersaturated, but when 4e comes out people are going to be eagerly picking up new sourcebook after new sourcebook.

 

[bowbe]

Ahh yes, the novels.

Also correct, but the same deal applied. Rather than the return for product vs. return for $$ end result was the same and hit on many fronts.

Case

 

[Dark Psion]

I picked up "A Practicle Guide to Monsters" today at Wal Mart of all places.

I have always said they need to get the books into more stores and therefore the hands of people who have never seen the game.

 

[HellHound]

(book trade problems)

Actually, the story you just told sounds like the one from White Wolf when they first entered the book trade. I hadn't heard it attributed to TSR before.

That said, there's no way that the transition will end support for the book trade. A new edition release means a lot of marketing leverage and money, which should translate to increased support in the book trade during the preliminary release cycle of the new game.