D&D General Supposing D&D is gamist, what does that mean?

[RhaezDaevan]

Wow, we're still on the inventory thing? A few people corrected my assumptions on it a while ago. I still prefer a different way, but I now understand better why it is the way it is.

Can we just conclude that blades in the dark is not for me and move on?

I think the same publisher has another game, Monster of the Week. I am a fan of the inspirational material for the game. Anyone on here have experience with it that might describe if it's any good and what kinds of games they've used it for? By the descriptions I see online, it looks interesting.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Wow, we're still on the inventory thing? A few people corrected my assumptions on it a while ago. I still prefer a different way, but I now understand better why it is the way it is.

Can we just conclude that blades in the dark is not for me and move on?

I think the same publisher has another game, Monster of the Week. I am a fan of the inspirational material for the game. Anyone on here have experience with it that might describe if it's any good and what kinds of games they've used it for? By the descriptions I see online, it looks interesting.

It certainly leans more traditional than many other PbtA games, but it’s still in the Story Now camp in that the GM isn’t meant to plan ahead beyond certain elements of a mystery, and that really the game is about the characters more than the mysteries.

But I imagine you could ignore all that and play it in a way that’d suit your preferred style.

 

[RhaezDaevan]

It certainly leans more traditional than many other PbtA games, but it’s still in the Story Now camp in that the GM isn’t meant to plan ahead beyond certain elements of a mystery, and that really the game is about the characters more than the mysteries.

But I imagine you could ignore all that and play it in a way that’d suit your preferred style.

OK, so do the players say "we want an ooze monster this time", or would the GM start with that themselves and extra details like the creature's origin get fleshed out by the players?

 

[Thomas Shey]

So the concern is not about things "popping into existence" or about "retcons", but about the utility of the equipment at issue?

This is a sufficient misreading of my point that I'm not sure how to respond or if its useful to do so.

As for gear that everyone should have, shouldn't an experienced crim have the stuff that is useful for their latest gig?

And to some people's view, the way that should be handled is for him to have it listed. "An experienced crim" /= "everyone".

There are absolutely games where the majority of necessary gear is just assumed and everyone would think you would be weird if you suddenly got picky about it. There are others with various mechanics for retroactively fitting people out as you get to problems because the kind of story they're playing out are not the kind where, for the most part, not having the right tool would be odd and probably the sign of incompetence on the character's part. And then there's games where the specific gear to some level is expected to be managed and if you lack something you lack something. To act like there's no difference between these three and no distinction between people who prefer the third one to the first two is, honestly, hard to parse in a positive way.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I actually think this last question speaks to the design intent of various editions of dnd. The equipment list in 5e is largely vestigial. Selecting specific items from that list was important in b/x and ad&d, because each item could be used to solve particular problems (throwing ball bearings (?) on the ground while running away, flour for invisible things, multiple ways to set everything on fire, etc). The higher level version of this are the detailed charts for building a stronghold.

But these 1e problems are simply not problems in 5e, especially past 2nd level (to your disguise kit example, my current 5e pc has a disguise kit…which was made irrelevant by a 2nd level invocation that lets me cast disguise self at will). The various packs and kits are there to provide flavor and define the character a bit at the start, but abstract the process so that new players don’t have to pore over equipment lists. Characters can also carry an absurd amount of weight on them while being able to pull any item out of their pack in 6 seconds. However, the thing 5e does care about are magic items, hence the attunement system. In other words, you will probably be able to say to a dm that you had a piece of chalk in your pack and it’s not a big deal, but will not be able to say that your character probably also has a magical shield. So, overall, the level of detail in the inventory system tells us what the game is about.

To reinforce your point, the modern games I know that have a pretty detailed gear listing are usually either semi-serious/realistic post-apocalypse games or low-magic fantasy. Though when it comes to craft kits and the like, I also suspect there's a factor that in many cases the people putting that down really don't know what would be in those kits, so detailing them too much is actively counter-productive or requires more research than they think they warrant.

 

[hawkeyefan]

OK, so do the players say "we want an ooze monster this time", or would the GM start with that themselves and extra details like the creature's origin get fleshed out by the players?

The GM decides the mystery and the hook to get the PCs involved, and what will happen if the PCs don’t do anything to stop it.

But how the mystery is explored and resolved? That comes about through play.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The GM decides the mystery and the hook to get the PCs involved, and what will happen if the PCs don’t do anything to stop it.

But how the mystery is explored and resolved? That comes about through play.

Yeah, Monster if the Week is the only PbtA game I ever really had fun with, and I suspect its due to my love for the source material. It's why I want to run a Star Trek Adventures campaign, even though the mechanics are not in my wheelhouse.

 

[pemerton]

OK, so do the players say "we want an ooze monster this time", or would the GM start with that themselves and extra details like the creature's origin get fleshed out by the players?

This is generally not how any "story now" RPGing works.

 

[pemerton]

As for gear that everyone should have, shouldn't an experienced crim have the stuff that is useful for their latest gig?

And to some people's view, the way that should be handled is for him to have it listed. "An experienced crim" /= "everyone".

But to the best of my understanding every PC in BitD is an experienced crim. That's the premise of the game.

There are absolutely games where the majority of necessary gear is just assumed and everyone would think you would be weird if you suddenly got picky about it. There are others with various mechanics for retroactively fitting people out as you get to problems because the kind of story they're playing out are not the kind where, for the most part, not having the right tool would be odd and probably the sign of incompetence on the character's part. And then there's games where the specific gear to some level is expected to be managed and if you lack something you lack something. To act like there's no difference between these three and no distinction between people who prefer the third one to the first two is, honestly, hard to parse in a positive way.

I have not asserted that there is no difference between any of these systems.

I've asserted two things:

(1) D&D (and CoC, and other "traditional" RPGs) is not a game where every bit of detail of what is carried has to be established prior to a player hoping to have it on their inventory list - and I've given numerous examples

(2) BitD does not involve "retcons" of gear, nor gear "popping into existence".

You seem to agree with (1) in this post:

when it comes to craft kits and the like, I also suspect there's a factor that in many cases the people putting that down really don't know what would be in those kits, so detailing them too much is actively counter-productive or requires more research than they think they warrant.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

The way Blades accounts for this is that you have to choose the amount of your load at the beginning the session. And if you choose a heavy load (6 slots), you are encumbered for the whole session even before you choose what those items are, so it would come into play in situations where being encumbered would matter. But the game also advises players to start from the fiction and then only go to the mechanics when it's necessary, so if a player wanted to pull a ladder out of her pocket, there would be a question, to say the least, of how that works in the fiction.

Honestly, and I don't think this is really restricted to one type of game, the sort of 'tone' of game you are going to play is largely going to be up to the participants. I mean, the 'chrome' of a game system is probably going to prime people for what to do with it, and the mechanics probably help you leverage the envisaged tone, but in the final analysis if the players want to play goofy toon RPing, then dammit they are going to and WHY STOP THEM???! I mean, same with any other tone!

Like, I've mentioned this 4e D&D campaign I ran. The PCs were just GOOFBALLS. It wasn't like I did something different from games with a more intense tone either. It was all them. They just hammed it. I mean, it wasn't even really more 'out there' than other D&D games in terms of the action, I would say. It was just the whole tone of the game was immensely non-serious. I mean, I could probably recount the action and make it sound totally like some grimdark action fantasy or high fantasy, but it wasn't like that at the table. Every time somebody let loose with a power they were explaining how some ridiculous coincidence felled their opponent, or they were doing handsprings into battle, or communing with a pet rock, or whatever.

My point is, people should probably not get so exercised about what they think some particular rule COULD bring to the table if they want to use it in a certain way. Yes, you could probably make your BitD play sound kind of preposterous and cartoonish, this is not news!