Surprising the surprisers

[Pielorinho]

The assassin is creeping up on the camp. He's about fifty feet away, invisible, and at his current pace, he's going to reach us in about five round. He's invisible, and has a nasty-looking bow. Three of us are awake.

I know this because I've got permanent See Invisibility, and the poor schmuck doesn't realize that I'm just pretending (with a very high bluff skill) that I can't see him. I've cast Message and informed my party mates about where he is, how he's armed, and so forth. The signal for us to attack him will be my casting Glitterdust on him.

When I cast Glitterdust, how should initiative be resolved?

1) The assassin and I get to go in the surprise round.
2) Everyone gets to go in the surprise round.
3) Only our party gets to go in the surprise round.
4) Nobody goes in the surprise round.
5) Everyone in our party goes in the surprise round, but must make a bluff check; if the assassin's Sense Motive is higher than any of our bluff checks, he also goes in the surprise round.
6) Only I may go during the surprise round.
7) Other.

I'd lean toward 2, with maybe a high circumstance bonus to my initiative and a moderate bonus to that of the rest of the party. 6 has some appeal, since my Glitterdust will be definition be the first act during the combat. I can see justification for all the others. What do y'all think?

Daniel

 

[moritheil]

The signal for us to attack him will be my casting Glitterdust on him.

When I cast Glitterdust, how should initiative be resolved?

1) The assassin and I get to go in the surprise round.
2) Everyone gets to go in the surprise round.
3) Only our party gets to go in the surprise round.
4) Nobody goes in the surprise round.
5) Everyone in our party goes in the surprise round, but must make a bluff check; if the assassin's Sense Motive is higher than any of our bluff checks, he also goes in the surprise round.
6) Only I may go during the surprise round.
7) Other.

I'd lean toward 2, with maybe a high circumstance bonus to my initiative and a moderate bonus to that of the rest of the party. 6 has some appeal, since my Glitterdust will be definition be the first act during the combat. I can see justification for all the others. What do y'all think?

Daniel

4.

There is no surprise round, because both sides of combatants are aware of the other. Now, they may not be aware that the other side is aware, but that's a different thing. That just means that the assassin will have been leaning towards tactics assuming that he gets a surprise round. I would roll initiative and proceed with the first round of combat.

 

[Pielorinho]

4.

There is no surprise round, because both sides of combatants are aware of the other. Now, they may not be aware that the other side is aware, but that's a different thing. That just means that the assassin will have been leaning towards tactics assuming that he gets a surprise round. I would roll initiative and proceed with the first round of combat.

That's an interesting point. I guess you could start combat, with nothing happening for a round or two while I let my party-mates know what's up. The assassin would be creeping forward, while they'd all be delaying until I cast my Glitterdust, at which point they'd stop delaying and charge into the fray.

That would probably be the best resolution: we'd all gain a benefit from outfoxing the assassin, inasmuch as our coordinated actions would go off before he knew what hit him, but it wouldn't create rules weirdness.

Thanks!
Danile

 

[Infiniti2000]

I choose 6, but your glitterdust is the surprise round. But, if the assassin saw you cast message (how could he not?), then I choose 4. Also, the assassin would get a sense motive vs. everyone's bluff checks because you are all in on the rouse. If he makes it, go back to 4 without the glitterdust being cast.

 

[Pielorinho]

But, if the assassin saw you cast message (how could he not?)

True--I'd have to be tricky to get it off. For example, cast it while someone else is speaking, or throw a log on the fire and cast it quickly while my back is turned and the log is crashing on the fire, or something.

However, I'd probably be better off setting up keywords. "So, think we can make it to town by two?" means, "Guys, don't look now, but there's trouble at two o'clock; await my signal!"

Daniel

 

[Philip]

As soon as you became aware, Initiative should have been rolled. The assassin just gets to go on his initiative while you cast your spells on yours.

You never know, maybe the assassin IS aware and is just bluffing you by appearing not aware...

You both might claim the advantage of a surprise on your (still unaware) fellow party members though. You never know, maybe one of the party members suspects that you are in league with the assassin.

 

[Philip]

Oh, yeah, the rule of thumb I use in initiative /encounter situations is:

Does someone want to interrupt or act before someone else?

If yes: roll initiative. If no: continue as normal.

Obviously, unaware characters never 'want' to interrupt someone else, because they don't know who or what to interrupt.

That is why two gunslingers can stand in the main street eyeballing each other for minutes. They are not delaying nor reading, they just don't see any action they want to interrupt yet. But as soon as one sees the other going for his gun, the other usually wants to interrupt (unless he's overly confident) and then initiative is rolled.

 

[sfedi]

I agree, 4) is the way to go.

Although I seriously doubt that your companions would bluff the assasin as you did.

 

[Pielorinho]

Yeah, I'm probably better off just shouting, "Heads up, guys!" and launching the attack .

Daniel