SW Saga House Rules, what are yours?

[ValhallaGH]

Donovan makes a good point in another thread that the fault may be the Skill Focus feat in general and not just Skill Focus: Use The Force.

Well, lets do the math real quick.

Defenses:
10 + Level + Class bonus + Ability bonus. For first level characters this will average 12 + Ability bonus.
By 9th level this will average 21 + Ability bonus.

Skills (trained and focused):
10 + 1/2 Level + Ability bonus + d20 roll. For first level characters this will average 10 + Ability bonus + d20 roll. By 9th level this will average 14 + Ability bonus + d20 roll.

It's entirely possible for a Skill Focus character to have a skill modifier that exceeds the target's relevant defense score, before dice are rolled at low- to mid-levels. For mid- to high-levels, skill users need to roll moderate to well to successfully affect targets. For very high levels (18 to 20), you're looking at needing a 10 to 16 before ability bonuses, depending upon feats and class bonuses.

Obviously, this is back-of-the-envelope examples, but it's a good point to keep in mind when looking at Saga and how it handles skills.
For any skill that goes against defenses (Deception, Persuasion, Use Computers, and Use the Force) Skill Focus is brokenly good before 10th level. After 10th level, it's still extremely powerful, though it slowly slides into the "necessary" category as you reach the end-game levels. Skill Focus never quite becomes necessary for skill reliant characters, but it does get close.

I hope that clarifies it some, as well as illuminating why it is such a commonly cited issue.

 

[Donovan Morningfire]

Donovan makes a good point in another thread that the fault may be the Skill Focus feat in general and not just Skill Focus: Use The Force.

Thanks

As for a Skill Focus fix, one idea I've seen bandied about on the WotC boards is to change how Skill Focus works entirely rather than restricting the level you can take it at. Instead of a flat +5 bonus, it would let you add your full character level to skill checks instead of half your level. Makes of minimal benefit at lower levels, but could get overpowering at the high end of things. Does however let the skill in question scale a bit better with Defense scores, useful not only for Force powers but for Persuasion and Deception checks as well.

Another potential notion is to have the benefit of the feat scale as the PC gains levels. For levels 1 thru 7, Skill Focus only provides a +2 bonus to the relevant skill. From 8th (generally when PCs graduate to prestige classes) to 15th level, it provides a +5 bonus, and from 16th (PCs are virtually gods amongst men) to 20th it becomes a +10. Not sure how the math would entirely work on this one, particularly at the higher end, but it would work to keep Skill Focus from being too powerful at lower levels.

Just tossing some ideas out there.

 

[Acid_crash]

Sounds plausible to have either a scaling option or just have it equal your character's level.

Like: Character level 1 - 5 = +2. 6 - 10 = +3. 11 - 15 = +4 16 - 20 = +5.

Just tossing out numbers, but by the upper levels it would equate to the final +5 it allows now.

I wouldn't know how well this would work in play though.

 

[ValhallaGH]

You could probably do just fine with a simple +3. It would radically lower the total benefit, making it much less powerful at any level, while still making it genuinely useful at every level.

 

[masshysteria]

As for a Skill Focus fix, one idea I've seen bandied about on the WotC boards is to change how Skill Focus works entirely rather than restricting the level you can take it at. Instead of a flat +5 bonus, it would let you add your full character level to skill checks instead of half your level. Makes of minimal benefit at lower levels, but could get overpowering at the high end of things. Does however let the skill in question scale a bit better with Defense scores, useful not only for Force powers but for Persuasion and Deception checks as well.

This was my solution when I first read Saga Edition. Funny to think it was dismissed by then, but now is coming back into fashion. That, or I just like to think I'm ahead of the curve.

At first level you are four points behind RAW, by 9th and 10th you are equal to RAW, and by 20th 5 points greater than RAW. But, like Donovan pointed out, it now scales with defenses, so to me it makes a lot of sense and is a cake walk to implement.

 

[NMC]

Another home rule I use, because my adventures are set during the early Rebellion Era, is what I call Bounty Points. Heroes earn them if they perform acts of sedition and witnesses are present, at the GM's discretion; the number they accrue can bring certain penalties.

Total Penalty Recognition
0 -0 None
1-2 -0 Hometown
3-5 -2 Homeworld
6-9 -2 Home System
10-14 -5 Many Systems
15-20 -5 Many Civilized Systems
21+ -10 Galaxywide

Penalties can apply to Deception checks made by the Heroes to conceal their identities and that kind of thing. Recognition gives a rough estimate of the places where people might know their faces, and should of course also include the places where they have earned their Bounty Points. The ranges of numbers on the table are inspired by the old rules for Reputation from the original D20 Star Wars RPG.

-Nate

 

[NMC]

I also have characters combine their ability modifiers for Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma to determine their Gamble check; this represents their ability to count cards, read their opponents and bluff.

-Nate

 

[pawsplay]

Pumpkin said better than I could. Donovan makes a good point in another thread that the fault may be the Skill Focus feat in general and not just Skill Focus: Use The Force. I'm going to be houseruling it to require a character level of 8th or higher.

Honestly, just requiring 3rd level or higher is probably sufficient, just enough to give everyone a fighting chance.

 

[Hereticus]

Our group added Quickness (Initiative) as the 18th skill. There is no difference in mechanics, but we needed an even number of skills.

Skill advancement is no longer done zero at odd levels, 18 at even levels, with all advancement being equal.

Every three levels, characters gain nine skill points each. The first and third levels, the character gains their nine most preferred skills. The middle level the character gains their nine least preferred skills.

The numbers do not make a big difference, but it does have some better advancement with the skills that are preferred by the character, and are more likely to work on developing.

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