Swallowing question

[0-hr]

Can a critter do a normal grapple and then swallow someone, or must it do a "hold" type grapple (at -20) in order to swallow? Below is the text for the critter in question and the general rules for Improved Grab. I've bolded the part that makes me think maybe the critter can only swallow if they do the -20 type of grapple.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, the creature must hit with its bite attack. If it gets a hold it can attempt to bite or swallow the opponent.

Improved Grab (Ex): ... The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used in the improved grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a –20 penalty on grapple checks, but is not considered grappled itself...

 

[Infiniti2000]

A hold is a normal part of a grapple, Step 3. The critter does not need to take the -20 penalty to not be considered grappling.

 

[irishfast]

you have to relax the throat

 

[0-hr]

So the critter can swallow someone immeadiately upon hitting Step 3? I thought that they have to wait until the next round and do another grapple check in order to accomplish that.

I can see that both places use the word "hold". I think specifcally biting something (using the mouth to "hold" at -20 as opposed to your arms/legs/ etc. to wrestle at -0) makes more sense as a prelude to swallowing.

 

[frankthedm]

I can see that both places use the word "hold". I think specifcally biting something (using the mouth to "hold" at -20 as opposed to your arms/legs/ etc. to wrestle at -0) makes more sense as a prelude to swallowing.

When a critter improved grabs a smaller critter, it is primarily using the grabbing appendage [mouth in this case] to hold the creature.

It is also suffering the penalties of grappling the creature as it puts nearly all of its effort and focus into shoving the victim down it’s throat. To eliminate the penalties of being grappled when trying to swallow a victim, it can choose to take -20 on its grapple checks so it is less vulnerable to reprisals from the victim’s herd. But at the same time, doing that takes effort away from chugging down the victim. For a critter with swallow whole, think of it as “Eating Defensively”, the victim is still in the mouth, but the monster is paying enough attention to it's surroundings to keep it's dex bonus, take AoOs... etc.

So the critter can swallow someone immeadiately upon hitting Step 3? I thought that they have to wait until the next round and do another grapple check in order to accomplish that. .

Most monsters do have to wait. Chech your monster description.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a tyrannosaurus must hit an opponent of up to one size smaller with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can try to swallow the foe the following round.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

“Eating Defensively

Awesome.

 

[Nail]

Agreed.

 

[Infiniti2000]

So the critter can swallow someone immeadiately upon hitting Step 3?

Yes, they have to wait until next round unless some feat is taken (I believe there's a speedy eating feat somewhere). The key from Swallow Whole is: "If a creature with this special attack begins its turn with an opponent held in its mouth..."

 

[frankthedm]

Yes, they have to wait until next round unless some feat is taken (I believe there's a speedy eating feat somewhere).

Might be savage species, lots of monster boosting feats in that one. I think there were also

Be able to take -10 instead of -20 when holding foe with only improved grab appendage.

Be able to Swallow whole creatures one size larger than usual.