D&D (2024) Sword Coast population data from 2024 D&D Pocket Expert

Tales and Chronicles

Jewel of the North, formerly know as vincegetorix
London passed 2 million in the 1840s - the first city in the world to do so. Which required railways, canals and a large seaport to bring in food. A tenth of the population of the UK at the time, near enough. Bear in mind this is a city powered by coal by this time, not wood. And it was the capital of an empire that by then was global. WAterdeep is rather different - not least in not having those 21 million people living in the rest of the "country"/"area of influence".
This.

Waterdeep is supposed to be the greatest city on the SC, but lacks any influence outside it's region.

- Compared to BG, Elturel or Neverwinter, their standing army is never mentioned as patrolling their area of influence.

- They barely(?) Have any colonial efforts.

- Despite being described as highly magiteked, the high clergy of the god of inventions is in BG where its work is intertwined with the rulership of the city.

In short, the city only feels fantastic and powerful because they bolted randomly any quirky fantasy element they could think of on the same city: a dragon in their harbor! An anti-dragon force shield! Giant statues! Spaceship! Undercity with more spaceship! Under-undercity fraught with danger but also the source of drinking water! A political system that makes no sense! A brooding edgy batman-archmage!

I think too many writers decided to add their one fantastic element on Waterdeep. Sometimes less is more.
 

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This.

Waterdeep is supposed to be the greatest city on the SC, but lacks any influence outside it's region.

- Compared to BG, Elturel or Neverwinter, their standing army is never mentioned as patrolling their area of influence.

- They barely(?) Have any colonial efforts.

- Despite being described as highly magiteked, the high clergy of the god of inventions is in BG where its work is intertwined with the rulership of the city.

In short, the city only feels fantastic and powerful because they bolted randomly any quirky fantasy element they could think of on the same city: a dragon in their harbor! An anti-dragon force shield! Giant statues! Spaceship! Undercity with more spaceship! Under-undercity fraught with danger but also the source of drinking water! A political system that makes no sense! A brooding edgy batman-archmage!

I think too many writers decided to add their one fantastic element on Waterdeep. Sometimes less is more.
I mean, the whole northern region there has strong Canadian sword & Sorcery vibes.

To add to my point Toronto may have even inspired Undermountain

 



Parmandur

Book-Friend, he/him
This.

Waterdeep is supposed to be the greatest city on the SC, but lacks any influence outside it's region.

- Compared to BG, Elturel or Neverwinter, their standing army is never mentioned as patrolling their area of influence.

- They barely(?) Have any colonial efforts.

- Despite being described as highly magiteked, the high clergy of the god of inventions is in BG where its work is intertwined with the rulership of the city.

In short, the city only feels fantastic and powerful because they bolted randomly any quirky fantasy element they could think of on the same city: a dragon in their harbor! An anti-dragon force shield! Giant statues! Spaceship! Undercity with more spaceship! Under-undercity fraught with danger but also the source of drinking water! A political system that makes no sense! A brooding edgy batman-archmage!

I think too many writers decided to add their one fantastic element on Waterdeep. Sometimes less is more.
In FR5, the City of Luskan is at war with Ruathym, and the text gives the DM the option if starting while that war is ongoing, or after Warerdeep intervened and forced the war to stop...which led to Luskan and Ruathym trading up to do Sea Crimes, so Waterdeep is weighing going to war to smack down Luskan and Ruathym totally.
 

Azzy

ᚳᚣᚾᛖᚹᚢᛚᚠ (He/Him)
@Parmandur

I notice for both Forgotten Realms and for Greyhawk, you want to jettison decades of D&D development that was fleshing out the rest of the respective planets. You strongly prefer the initial regional settings, only, and to leave the planet agnostic.

I understand that both Gygax and Greenwood have been less thrilled with the directions that the planets went. But what are your motivations for an abrogation?
I can't speak for Parmamdur, but I think the biggest benefit of going with the original starting timeline is that it opens up all previous products for use. If you liked the original start point, the the 1e material is immediately useful without being overwritten by an advancing timeline. If you prefer the 2e timeline, you can add all those materials in the same way that people did back in 2. If you prefer the 3e timeline, etc.

It's easier to add setting lore and advance the timeline than to subtract it.
 

Yaarel

🇮🇱He-Mage
I can't speak for Parmamdur, but I think the biggest benefit of going with the original starting timeline is that it opens up all previous products for use. If you liked the original start point, the the 1e material is immediately useful without being overwritten by an advancing timeline. If you prefer the 2e timeline, you can add all those materials in the same way that people did back in 2. If you prefer the 3e timeline, etc.

It's easier to add setting lore and advance the timeline than to subtract it.
I was thinking more about the geography, but you make a good point about the chronology.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend, he/him
I can't speak for Parmamdur, but I think the biggest benefit of going with the original starting timeline is that it opens up all previous products for use. If you liked the original start point, the the 1e material is immediately useful without being overwritten by an advancing timeline. If you prefer the 2e timeline, you can add all those materials in the same way that people did back in 2. If you prefer the 3e timeline, etc.

It's easier to add setting lore and advance the timeline than to subtract it.
Yup, that's a big part of it. Reading, say, FR5 (possibly the high water mark for TSR Setting books) it is vhock full of fun setups...most of which were solved in a novel int he 90's or blown up some other way. Like, keep Hellgate Keep there with it's dinosaur-themed Balor master seeking global domination! That's fantastic! And they blew it up!!!
 


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