D&D (2024) Sword Coast population data from 2024 D&D Pocket Expert

[Tales and Chronicles]

Yup, that's a big part of it. Reading, say, FR5 (possibly the high water mark for TSR Setting books) it is vhock full of fun setups...most of which were solved in a novel int he 90's or blown up some other way. Like, keep Hellgate Keep there with it's dinosaur-themed Balor master seeking global domination! That's fantastic! And they blew it up!!!

Dino-Sauron sounds badass as hell!

 

[Parmandur]

I was thinking more about the geography, but you make a good point about the chronology.

Well, one of the painful parts about the geographic expansions to the Forgotten Realms in particular is thst the Forgotten Realms was not full of real world analogies at first: the parts thst Greenwood built for his real campaigns, the Savage Frontier and the Heartlands, did not do that Mystara style "this is fantasy Germany, thisnis fantasy Egypt" thing...ao as they grafted on Oriental Adventures and so on...it altered the original vibe.

 

[Parmandur]

Possibly. I don't remember seeing them in 5e APs, while I recall mentions of Flaming Fists and Hellriders(?) in various APs.

The Lord's Alliance is pretty blatantly Waterdeep and their trading partners flexing their power.

 

[Parmandur]

Dino-Sauron sounds badass as hell!

I KNOw, and it was right there! Dino-Sauron had one hand tied behind his back (magical wards, he was in very serious trouble if he got sent back to the Abyss, etc), but it was still a looming threat that dominated the energy of the people of the Silver Marches and provided a nice megadungeon with flavor and an end boss...and TSR just BLEW IT UP and decided to add the Mongol Horde and Aztecs...

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I KNOw, and it was right there! Dino-Sauron had one hand tied behind his back (magical wards, he was in very serious trouble if he got sent back to the Abyss, etc), but it was still a looming threat that dominated the energy of the people of the Silver Marches and provided a nice megadungeon with flavor and an end boss...and TSR just BLEW IT UP and decided to add the Mongol Horde and Aztecs...

What's dumb is that they could have used Dino-Sauron and gave him a badass abyssal mega fauna themed layer with a great Aztec esthetics! Some kind of hellish, sword and sandal, hollow-world/lost-world accessible through the portal under Hell Keep.

Way better than fantasy Mexico!

 

[Parmandur]

Way better than fantasy Mexico!

There are good ways to do fantasy Mexico hat tip to Journeys Through the Radiant Citadel but boy howdy Maztica was not the way to do that. And didn't really need to be in the Forgotten Realms.

 

[Yaarel]

Well, one of the painful parts about the geographic expansions to the Forgotten Realms in particular is thst the Forgotten Realms was not full of real world analogies at first: the parts thst Greenwood built for his real campaigns, the Savage Frontier and the Heartlands, did not do that Mystara style "this is fantasy Germany, thisnis fantasy Egypt" thing...ao as they grafted on Oriental Adventures and so on...it altered the original vibe.

True. Maybe the original vibe of the Forgotten Realms was something like Lion,Witch,Wardrobe backdoor into Camelot with a dash of Neopaganism?

But honestly I prefer the expansion to encompass the rest of the planet. It is more diverse and inclusive. It is also a reminder, when borrowing tropes from other cultures, there is a place for such tropes, and to make an effort to understand these tropes from the point of view of the respective culture.

I get how having the entire world traipse across Camelot, sotospeak, can be jarring to the feel of the setting. At the same time, the result probably feels more like America at large, where perhaps more players can relate to the setting. To be fair, there are still places, where a DM can curate a "regional setting" with a more specific cultural feel. For example, Moonshae is a go-to for Celtic Britain tropes. It is probably fine if one of the islands, or even just one city and its hinterland can correspond Camelot with its odd amalgam of Roman, Anglo-Saxon, and Celtic. (The Norland island looks like a place for Vikings in the British Isles, including Dublin/Dyflinn). Meanwhile the rest of the planet makes it normal to explore the tropes from other cultures.

 

[pukunui]

Well, one of the painful parts about the geographic expansions to the Forgotten Realms in particular is thst the Forgotten Realms was not full of real world analogies at first: the parts thst Greenwood built for his real campaigns, the Savage Frontier and the Heartlands, did not do that Mystara style "this is fantasy Germany, thisnis fantasy Egypt" thing...ao as they grafted on Oriental Adventures and so on...it altered the original vibe.

Yes and no. I mean, it’s the OG grey box that establishes that they’re called the Forgotten Realms because they used to be connected to our real world but now they’ve been forgotten about (by us).

It’s not much of a stretch to go from that statement to including civilisations built by ancient Babylonians, Greeks, and Egyptians who arrived in Faerûn via the now lost portals.

 

[Parmandur]

True. Maybe the original vibe was something like Lion,Witch,Wardrobe backdoor into Camelot?

The vibe was a pretty successful blend of Middle Earth tropes with Fritz ever and Robert Howard Swod and Sorcery tropes...with some Narnia in there, for sure. The Retreat of the Elves and the state of the Dwarves got way more into what Tolkien was laying down than other D&D ever tried to...and then WotC blew that up for 3E!!!!! Made it just like other D&D Settings in that regard.

But honestly I prefer the expansion to encompass the rest of the planet. It is more diverse and inclusive. It is also a reminder, when borrowing tropes from other cultures, there is a place for such tropes, and to make an effort to understand these tropes from the point of view of the respective culture.

That can work, and was the vibe for Mystara...not the Forgotten Realms (though at least the Five Shires Gazateer was actually a stealth Forgotten Realms book, so turn around is fair play in the long run).

 

[Parmandur]

Yes and no. I mean, it’s the OG grey box that establishes that they’re called the Forgotten Realms because they used to be connected to our real world but now they’ve been forgotten about (by us).

It’s not much of a stretch to go from that statement to including civilisations built by ancient Babylonians, Greeks, and Egyptians who arrived in Faerûn via the now lost portals.

Yeah, but Greenwood was less than thrilled with how that went down.