Swordmage Implement with Wizard powers?

[Tellerve]

Not only that, but if they were to pull out a wand, orb, or rod out to use as an implement with their arcane powers besides the sword they would loose +2 to ac for having something in their other hand. Assming they weren't already going the two-handed weapon route.

Tellerve

 

[Oldtimer]

Even a holy avenger works fine for a cleric.

As an Implement? How do you figure that?

 

[JDillard]

As an Implement? How do you figure that?

Holy Avenger says it can be used as a holy symbol. Clerics can use holy symbols as implements. Ergo, Clerics can use Holy Avengers as implements.

 

[markl]

Not, however, as weapons, since clerics are not proficient in axes, hammers or heavy blades. Of course, there are simple and obvious ways to get around that.

The argument the other way goes like this: Paladins have text in the class description saying that they may use holy avengers as implements for their powers. Clerics do not have any such text in their description. Ergo, clerics cannot use holy avengers as implements.

 

[DracoSuave]

From D&DIC:

Level: 30
Price: 3125000 gp
Weapon: Axe, Hammer, Heavy Blade
Enhancement: +6 Attack rolls and damage rolls
Critical: +6d6 radiant damage, and you can spend a healing surge

Property: A holy avenger deals an extra 1d10 radiant damage when the power you use to make the attack has the radiant keyword.
Power (Daily): Minor Action. You and each ally within 10 squares of you gain a +5 power bonus to Fortitude, Reflex, and Will defenses until the end of your next turn.
Special: A holy avenger can be used as a holy symbol. It adds its enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls and the extra damage granted by its property (if applicable) when used in this manner. You do not gain your weapon proficiency bonus on an attack when using a holy avenger as an implement.

Yeah, clerics can use a Holy Avenger Weapon as an Implement.

As it stands here are the list of implements, as well as the classes that can use that implement (not counting Spiral Wizards' feature):

Holy Symbols and Holy Avenger weapons- Clerics, Paladins
Blades- Swordmages
Pact Blade Weapons- Warlocks (by the item property), Swordmages (by the light blade requirement)
Orbs- Wizards, Artificers
Rods- Warlocks, Artificers
Staves- Wizards, Artificers
Wands- Wizards, Warlocks, Artificers

At any point where you have two classes for the same implement, that implement can be used for the Implement powers of both classes by the same character, IF you are given that ability by the class.

Half-Elves, for example, do not get to use your Implement enhancement bonus for your Dilettante ability unless you also get the Multiclass feat that gives you the right to use those implements.

 

[Xris Robin]

Hm. Okay, I just noticed something. While Swordmages don't get their weapon proficiency bonus when using it as an Implement (same as everyone else) many of their attacks are Weapon, not Implement. Like Booming Blade and Greenflame Blade. Which means they DO get their bonus on many attacks. Also, they get their weapons enhancement bonus added to attack and damage rolls. Does anyone else have something like that?

I dunno, does that make up for the lack of special implement powers?

 

[Mirtek]

Also, they get their weapons enhancement bonus added to attack and damage rolls. Does anyone else have something like that?

Everyone who uses an implement get's the weapon enhancement bonus added to attack and damage rolls. That's the reason behing the exisitence of +X implements

 

[Xris Robin]

Hm, alright. So rather than buying a Magic Implement, he just buys a Magic Weapon.

Still, he seems to be a bit disadvantaged. Afterall, +X Implements tend to have special powers... and the Wizard/Warlock/Paladin/Cleric holding them can still be holding a +X weapon, with it's OWN special power.

For instance, they could have a Lifedrinker Sword, plus a Wand of Fireburst. But a Swordmage just has the Lifedrinker Sword.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Daily item power limits ... you don't want too many item dailies.
'cos quite apart from running into the cap, those dailies also cost money.

Lifedrinker = +4 levels. Wand with power = +2 levels.
+3 versions of both is almost as expensive as a +4 item.

Personally, I'd prefer to forgo dailies on weapons and/or implements if I can, since those items ought to be replaced fairly regularly, and go for dailies on gloves, or boots, or rings, or somesuch.

 

[Tellerve]

I concede, I'm wrong

It is interesting to note that if you are a warlock/wizard or wizard/warlock it behooves you to be a wand version of your class as you'll only need to get that one implement to play double duty. I'm not a huge fan of that, but whatever, RAW.

Tellerve