Swordmages and Spellscarred, and their nasty implement woes.

[Nifft]

While there aren't any in the PHB that I've noticed, there's no reason a power couldn't be "Melee touch" with the Implement keyword. (The Melee touch powers in the PHB are utilities with no attack roll.) The property should apply when using such a power.

If there were such a power, I'd agree that my example has a flaw. Until that time, I'm keeping it.

Cheers, -- N

PS: Arcane Riposte should have been a Melee Touch "power". They dropped the ball by removing that option.

 

[doctorhook]

Submitted to CS:

(1)...What about Implement powers that have [W] damage notations? What about Weapon powers that don't?...

Place your bets!

This is what I'm most curious about.

For example, Corrosive Ruin (Swordmage Encounter Attack 3) is an arcane implement power that deals 1[W] + Intelligence modifier damage. So, if I'm wielding a greatsword, does my implement attack deal 1[d10] + Intelligence modifier damage? Will it then also deal 1[d4] + Intelligence modifier damage when I wield a dagger? If yes, why not simply call these weapon powers, rather than implement powers?

A list of the strange Swordmage entries I've noted:

Corrosive Ruin (Encounter 3) Implement 1[W]
Lingering Lightning (Daily 5) Implement 1[W]
Electrified Lash (Encounter 7) Implement 2[W]
Spidersilk Slash (Encounter 17) Weapon 1d10
Thunder Riposte (Encounter 23) Implement 1[W]
Bounding Lightning (Daily 25) Implement 3[W]
​

Spidersilk Slash has the Weapon keyword, but prescribes damage like an implement power. The others "weird" entries I noted do the opposite, declaring themselves to be implement powers, but dealing "weapon" damage.

As far as I was aware, damage notation was one of the major functions of the Implement and Weapon keywords. Here, it becomes unclear what the purpose of these keywords is. Why have them if you don't intend to use them according to your own rules?

 

[Nifft]

If yes, why not simply call these weapon powers, rather than implement powers?

To deny you the +3 proficiency bonus on the attack roll.

Some powers are balanced around getting proficiency bonus (and they usually target AC); other powers are balanced around other defenses. If you get a Weapon keyword attacking a defense other than AC, that's the exception -- Rogues get it on an at-will, and it's a VERY strong at-will for exactly this reason.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Kordeth]

A list of the strange Swordmage entries I've noted:

Corrosive Ruin (Encounter 3) Implement 1[W]
Lingering Lightning (Daily 5) Implement 1[W]
Electrified Lash (Encounter 7) Implement 2[W]
Spidersilk Slash (Encounter 17) Weapon 1d10
Thunder Riposte (Encounter 23) Implement 1[W]
Bounding Lightning (Daily 25) Implement 3[W]
​

Spidersilk Slash has the Weapon keyword, but prescribes damage like an implement power. The others "weird" entries I noted do the opposite, declaring themselves to be implement powers, but dealing "weapon" damage.

All of the [W]-damage implement powers are ranged or blast attacks, so you can't give them the weapon keyword without making them unusable with a sword. I'll agree that they should probably have fixed damage as implement powers, or at the very least there should be a note at the beginning of the Swordmage classes that when an implement power doess [W] damage, you use the weapon damage of the light or heavy blade you're losing as an implement.

Spidersilk Slash is fine as-is though; there's precedent for Weapon attacks that don't inflict [W] damage.

 

[DracoSuave]

1) When you use a weapon as a weapon as an implement you gain any bonuses listed under Enhancement, Critical and Property. You can review this answer under our Player's Handbook FAQ here Answer it is number 17.

2) Those types of feats only work when you are using a weapon, not when you are using the weapon as an implement.

3) Unfortunately, there isn’t an official answer for the situation you describe. I’ve passed along this conversation to the game’s developers. Hopefully, we’ll see an update or FAQ entry covering it soon, but until then it’s up to the campaign’s Dungeon Master to decide. The DM is always the final arbiter on how they want their campaign to run.

Please let me know if you need anymore help!

So some ramifications of this.

Vorpal -does- work with Swordmage Implement, as well as Implement powers used by WotST. Jagged is the same way, as does anything with the Property line.

Elemental damage alteration powers (Flaming Sword) will not work.

Weapon Focus will work with Weapon powers with non-[W] damage dice, but not Implement powers with [W] damage dice (that's going to be confusing for a lot of players). That also means you can't use Lightning Lure or Sword Burst with Heavy Blade Opportunity.

And they don't have an answer for Spellscarred officially, so they're going to work on that (The I dunno answer for ya, Nifft)


Also as an aside, there -are- ranged powers that require melee weapons: Whirling Blade comes to mind in Jedi style

 

[WotC_GregB]

There are multiple powers in the Spellscarred class that have the Implement keyword. What are the implements that a Spellscarred uses for their powers? There are none listed in the FRPG that I can tell.

This should be addressed in the next update, which is currently being processed and should be out later this week.

 

[Zsig]

Corrosive Ruin (Encounter 3) Implement 1[W]
Lingering Lightning (Daily 5) Implement 1[W]
​

These two used to be Weapon keyword powers instead of Implement before launching. I thought it was some sort of error... then I saw Electrified Lash.

It's just a bit confusing, but I think it works, considering they all target non-AC Defenses.

 

[DracoSuave]

This should be addressed in the next update, which is currently being process and should be out later this week.

That's what -she- said!

Good to see that there's someone saying 'yep, we're on it.'

And that WoTC minions read this.

GO MINIONS!