Swords. More swords.

[Nebulous]

That had it right originally with weapon vs. armor tables, which was realistic, and historically that's why new weapons were made, to better punch through different defenses (or regionally, they just had different aesthetics country to country).

But i don't think most people who play D&D want that level of realism. The hit point model is abstract enough already.

 

[ArmoredSaint]

I want to point out that that widely-available mass-produced armor depicted on that program is only 18ga mild steel--it's only about 1mm thick. A real breastplate is going to be much thicker (at least twice as thick as that low-quality replica, and most likely thicker still through the center) and almost certainly going to resist either sword completely.

For thickness figures on a selection of real, authentic breastplates, see here:

http://www.allenantiques.com/Breastplate%20Thickness%20Study.html

http://www.allenantiques.com/Armour-Breastplates-Collection.html

The longsword's advantage over the katana lies not in punching through the metal, but it the ability of its much narrower point to fit into gaps between armour plates. Why try to go through the armour(what's a "half-inch" of penetration going to do if the wearer has padding underneath? not much, that's what) when you can go around the armour?

Japanese Katana VS European Longsword - Samurai sword VS Knight Broadsword - YouTube

 

[Neonchameleon]

That had it right originally with weapon vs. armor tables, which was realistic, and historically that's why new weapons were made, to better punch through different defenses (or regionally, they just had different aesthetics country to country).

But i don't think most people who play D&D want that level of realism. The hit point model is abstract enough already.

If I wanted weapon vs armour tables I'd be using Rolemaster tables instead. Those give significant differences between weapons and between armour types. And only one single roll, not two.

 

[ArmoredSaint]

I would love the inclusion (even if it were optional) of something like the weapon vs. armour type modifier rules. Yes, please!

 

[TwinBahamut]

I'd rather not see tables as the solution for making weapons different... My own preference would be to see weapons have either very significant special properties, like giving maces a "push target 1 square" effect on a hit, or to give each weapon its own power list that someone who is proficient with the weapon can make use of.

At the very least, making use of weapon damage type and various special properties can be used to differentiate weapons to various degrees. For example, of the four sword types I listed in my previous post, curve-back swords can do slashing damage, rapiers would do piercing damage, curve-forward swords would do chopping/hacking damage, and broadswords would be versatile at doing more than one kind. Perhaps one would be more accurate, one would deal more damage, and one has an expanded crit range.

Still, weapon choice should be an important choice for any character. I'd like it to be more meaningful than it has been in the past, if possible. I'd just like to get that difference without tables...

 

[JonWake]

I want to point out that that widely-available mass-produced armor depicted on that program is only 18ga mild steel--it's only about 1mm thick. A real breastplate is going to be much thicker (at least twice as thick as that low-quality replica, and most likely thicker still through the center) and almost certainly going to resist either sword completely.

I'd also point out that the longsword used in the clip above was a bit crap- it's a spring steel flat ground bit of piffle. Historical swords were a sturdier weapon. Besides, you'd never go after someone in full plate with any kind of sword, katana or no. Drag them to the ground and gouge out their eyes with your dagger like a proper soldier, or smash their helmet in with a mace. Nothing like a depressed skull fracture to make someone reconsider their life.

Honestly, there are pretty big differences in damage capacity with weapons. There are historical accounts of rapier duellists stabbing each other four, five, six times through the chest and still fighting, and on the other extreme a two-handed sword can cut two or three people in half with one swing.

I think Dnd damage works just fine as is.

 

[dangerous jack]

I'd prefer the opposite for mechanics:
Common Weapons
dagger - 1d4
sword - 1d8 (and I would just call it a "sword")

Less Common Weapons
shortsword - 1d6
greatsword - 1d10

But plenty of art showing characters using all sorts of different swords.


After that, let someone take feats or powers. "Pommel Strike" requires a sword with a pommel. "Catch The Weapon" requires a cross guard. "Flick Blood" requires the sword has a fuller and you just made a max damage hit on someone that bleeds. (By the way, I have no idea of sword function and whether these are accurate.)

 

[Juomari Veren]

I'd rather not see tables as the solution for making weapons different...

I like everything you're getting at with the rest of your post, but this is where the conflict of interest comes in: I honestly love the tables. I would dread having to search the "Sword" section and go through hundreds of swords just to find a "longsword" and then have to read a whole paragraph and a half just to know that it deals 1d8 damage. I would rather have just a table with a listing of technical(non-magical) enhancements that you can give to a basic sword under the sword section.

 

[TwinBahamut]

I like everything you're getting at with the rest of your post, but this is where the conflict of interest comes in: I honestly love the tables. I would dread having to search the "Sword" section and go through hundreds of swords just to find a "longsword" and then have to read a whole paragraph and a half just to know that it deals 1d8 damage. I would rather have just a table with a listing of technical(non-magical) enhancements that you can give to a basic sword under the sword section.

That comment was more referring to weapon vs. armor tables or the like that you need to look up mid-combat than handy weapon lists. Those can stay, for the most part.

I'd also rather avoid having hundreds of swords to look up... As I mentioned above, I'd rather focus on significant core differences between weapons (like the difference between a rapier and a longsword) than the minor differences between, say, a zhanmadao and an ôdachi.

 

[TwinBahamut]

I'd prefer the opposite for mechanics:
Common Weapons
dagger - 1d4
sword - 1d8 (and I would just call it a "sword")

Less Common Weapons
shortsword - 1d6
greatsword - 1d10

But plenty of art showing characters using all sorts of different swords.

Honestly, I'd like to drop the entire simple/martial/exotic system of weapon tiers, which this reminds me very strongly of. I don't think that kind of system really helps the game, and it just swells the weapon list. I'd much rather see real weapon diversity than seeing the same weapon copied three times with slightly better damage each time. I also don't really like the effect the exotic weapon proficiency feats have on feat choice and character versatility. I also don't care for various perfectly fair weapons to be rendered exotic just because their names are not European.