Swordsage and iron heart

[Shazman]

What's the best way for a swordsage to get high level iron heart maneuvers? The three ways I can think of are taking levels in warblade, taking levels in master of nine, or taking martial training feats. Which do you think is most optimal? I'm leaning towards master of nine, but the feat requirements and low Bab don't seem too optimal for a swordsage15 /master of nine 5.

 

[FireLance]

The Martial Study feat will allow a swordsage to pick up Iron Heart maneuvers, but he can only take the feat three times, and the best Iron Heart maneuvers require knowlege of one or more Iron Heart maneuvers. The Martial Stance feat will allow him to learn Iron Heart stances (which count as maneuvers for the purpose of qualifying for higher level maneuvers), but that's a further investment of feats.

Taking levels in warblade will not actually grant access to the best Iron Heart maneuvers because his initiator level for warblade maneuvers will be 1/2 swordsage level + warblade level. A swordsage 10/warblade 1 thus has an initiator level of 6 for warblade maneuvers and can only learn up to 3rd-level maneuvers and stances.

Perhaps the best approach is to take a level of warblade to pick up a few basic, low-level Iron Heart maneuvers, and then use the Martial Study feats to pick up the higher-level ones, using the warblade maneuvers as prerequisites?

 

[Shazman]

Even then, you still couldn't get high level maneuvers. I guess master of nine or an even split between swordsage and warblade are the only ways to go.

 

[gabrion]

Don't overlook the Ironheart Vest...that's the easiest way to get your first Iron Heart maneuver. Once you have one of them, martial study is more useful. Here's a list of the Iron Heart Maneuvers, their type, and the prereqs.

Level 1
Punishing Stance (Stance, 0)
Steel Wind (Strike, 0)
Steely Strike (Strike, 0)
Level 2
Disarming Strike (Strike, 0)
Wall of Blades (Counter, 0)
Level 3
Absolute Steel Stance (Stance, 1)
Exorcism of Steel (Strike, 1)
Iron Heart Surge (Other, 1)
Level 4
Lightning Recovery (Counter, 2)
Mithral Tornado (Strike, 2)
Level 5
Dancing Blade Form (Stance, 2)
Dazing Strike (Strike, 2)
Iron Heart Focus (Counter, 2)
Level 6
Iron Heart Endurance (Boost, 2)
Manticore Parry (Counter, 2)
Level 7
Finishing Move (Strike, 3)
Scything Blade (Boost, 3)
Level 8
Adamantine Hurricane (Strike, 3)
Lightning Throw (Strike, 2)
Supreme Blade Parry (Stance, 3)
Level 9
Strike of Perfect Clarity (Strike, 4)

So after you have the vest you're open to all 3rd level maneuvers (and Iron Heat Surge is absolutely amazing). Take Martial Study once and presto, you can get anything up to 6th level, and even one eigth level maneuver. Take Martial Sudy once more and you can get any maneuver other than Strike of perfect clarity. The bottom line is that with one item and a few feats, you don't even need to multi-class or make the huge investments required by the Master of Nine.

 

[FireLance]

Even then, you still couldn't get high level maneuvers. I guess master of nine or an even split between swordsage and warblade are the only ways to go.

Sure you could. A swordsage 16/warblade 2 has an initiator level of 17 for swordsage maneuvers, and could learn Strike of Perfect Clarity as a swordsage maneuver with Martial Study, provided he has four Iron Heart maneuvers (including stances) from his warblade levels.