SWRPG: Episode III Game mechanical thoughts.

[wingsandsword]

I've been thinking about how some game elements of the SWRPG might need to be revised or updated from Episode III. Not a lot, just some additions that make sense or changes to fit what was show.

Yoda knocking out the Royal Guards. Force Strike against a living target is supposed to give a DSP. Well, I don't think Yoda would casually take a DSP while going to duel with a Sith Lord. So, here's an idea on how he could have done that:

New Use for Force Strike
Knockout Strike: A force user may carefully control the amount of force they use, "pulling their punches" so to speak, by taking a -2 penalty on the Force Strike check. The attack is treated normally, and does normal Vitality damage, but if they would take any Wound Damage from the strike, they do not take any Wound damage and instead must make a Fortitude Save, DC 15 + Int modifier or be knocked out for 1d4+1 rounds. A successful save indicates they are merely stunned for 1 round.
Using this application of the Force Strike skill does not automatically give a Dark Side Point, but the GM should be careful with the adjudication of this ability, as it is somewhat questionable.

How the Emperor kept from appearing as a Force User to the Jedi all those years, two ways to handle this (the second also puts in a bit about his being "disfigured" from the duel with Mace).

Dark Stealth: To help hide his true nature from the prying eyes of others, the Sith have learned how one who is touched by the Dark Side may call upon it to cloak their strength in the Force.
A character who is consumed by the Dark Side (more Dark Side Points than Wisdom) and has the Sith Sorcery feat may cloak himself from the function of the See Force skill which lets it detect other users of the Force for a duration of 24 hours, if they spend 20 Vitality points.

The other idea I had was a feat along the lines of:

Dark Stealth
You can cloak yourself in the Dark Side, delving deep into deceit and treachery.
Prerequsites: Force Sensitive, Sense, Control, Alter, Sith Sorcery, 6+ Dark Side Points, Force Level 6th+, Force Stealth 8+ Ranks, Illusion 1+ Ranks.
Benefit: Any attempt to your presence as a Force user or your status as Force Sensitive by any means suffers a -10 penalty. Any physical decay you suffer from failing a Fortitude save related to Dark Side Points when you increase in level have no outward physical appearance.
Special: If you suffer damage from any Dark Side related Force Attack (Force Lightning, Force Grip, Hatred feat ect.) you lose the benefits of this Feat for 24 hours. You may choose to reactivate the feat at that time as a free action. You may voluntarily waive the benefits of this feat at any time as a free action as well.

Thoughts?

 

[Khorod]

Hmm... both the Emperor's masking of disformity could be easily attributed to Illusion. And masking himself from Jedi is the obvious use of Force Stealth. So, take both of those up to really high levels... and he can go head to head with Yoda and win on a Take 10.

What the Emperor demonstrated was a way to extend the duration of these powers.

The alternative Force Strike works well. Of course, there are bigger fish to fry. I think the Star Wars rules make the line between light and dark far too stark and absolute. There should be more room for gray.

To that end an untested rules thought of mine is to say that those Dark Side skills only give you the darkside point when you roll a '1' or a '20' when using them. While this is still a risk for Yoda, it is also the risk you take when using the Force to commit violence to smooth your path.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Force Strike against a living target is supposed to give a DSP. Well, I don't think Yoda would casually take a DSP while going to duel with a Sith Lord.

Yoda isn't the only one who's used Force Strike like this. However, I believe that the best thing to do is remove the DSP need alltogether, or follow the idea of INTENT of its use. Now, I wouldn't do this with things like Force Grip and Force Lightning, but Force Strike(and the Force Push detailed in a recent JC article) seems to make this necessary when comparing all the times we see this in the movies to the rules.

Dark Stealth isn't needed at all, as Palpatine is the textbook exampls of a Force Stealth user. That skill covers masking himself in the Force just fine.

Hmm... both the Emperor's masking of disformity could be easily attributed to Illusion.

I won't get into the detailed debate...but there's no evidence at all, beyond fan speculation prior to Sith, that the Emperor was masking any deformity. Going PURELY by what we've been shown in the movie, the lightning + lightsaber + closeness to his face IS what caused his face to be "scarred and deformed".

Yes, this can be debated back and forth and it probably will until Lucas finally says something definitive, but one must realize that the idea of the Illusion was all fan speculation and never was connected to anything Lucas ever said.

 

[DnDChick]

Also note that the core book has rules for this already. When a person with many many Dark Side points goes up a level, he runs a chance of getting some sort of physical disformity or infirmity. (RCR pg. 183)

i.e. Palpatine went up a level for killing Kit Fisto and the other Jedi with Mace Wendu. He failed his Fort save. He lost Con, and for dramatic effect, his face was scarred and twisted.


As for the Force Strike debate, remember that getting a Dark Side Point doesn't automatically make you a bad guy. In times of desperation, even the best of Jedi Knights might find themselves ticking off a DSP or two. They can always atone. Dark Side Points are not permanent, and can be "bought off" by acts of dramatic heroism. (RCR pg. 182)

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

i.e. Palpatine went up a level for killing Kit Fisto and the other Jedi with Mace Wendu. He failed his Fort save. He lost Con, and for dramatic effect, his face was scarred and twisted.

Hadn't actually thought about it that way, but that's a very, very interesting idea. Mix this with the strenuous fight and his drawing on the Force for a prolonged period of time(one could argue he was burning WPs to continue the Force Lighting, so Palpy may have helped along his deformity), and things get explained pretty well.

As for the Force Strike debate, remember that getting a Dark Side Point doesn't automatically make you a bad guy. In times of desperation, even the best of Jedi Knights might find themselves ticking off a DSP or two. They can always atone. Dark Side Points are not permanent, and can be "bought off" by acts of dramatic heroism. (RCR pg. 182)

True, but Force Strike is something we've seen used by Jedi as much as Sith in the movies, and yet in the game, due to that little DSP thing, it scares Jedi PCs away from using it. I think its probably best to follow the intent of the use of the skill, rather than "All uses against living creatures gives you a DSP". That implies that its an evil act, EVERY SINGLE TIME.

That, I think, is the root of the problem.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

The alternative Force Strike works well. Of course, there are bigger fish to fry. I think the Star Wars rules make the line between light and dark far too stark and absolute. There should be more room for gray.

To that end an untested rules thought of mine is to say that those Dark Side skills only give you the darkside point when you roll a '1' or a '20' when using them. While this is still a risk for Yoda, it is also the risk you take when using the Force to commit violence to smooth your path.

As I told my players when we started: The Force is much like a turkey. There is the light meat, and the dark meat ... but there is no gray meat.

I just added Force Push into Force Strike ... they can double the cost to 4 for a strike that tosses the target ... and then, for the movie, removed the "Strike" portion of Force strike, for a 2vp power that can knock people flying without damage.

My players really love that power.

Also added Jedi Jump and Fall and a few other things to yoink them up a little. But, really, the most powerful part of the Jedi is that they use melee weapons while most people use firearms ... and the rules allow them to disarm, sunder, and generally deny the foe his weapons rather easily.

--fje

 

[C. Baize]

As I told my players when we started: The Force is much like a turkey. There is the light meat, and the dark meat ... but there is no gray meat.

I just added Force Push into Force Strike ... they can double the cost to 4 for a strike that tosses the target ... and then, for the movie, removed the "Strike" portion of Force strike, for a 2vp power that can knock people flying without damage.

My players really love that power.

Also added Jedi Jump and Fall and a few other things to yoink them up a little. But, really, the most powerful part of the Jedi is that they use melee weapons while most people use firearms ... and the rules allow them to disarm, sunder, and generally deny the foe his weapons rather easily.

--fje

Then of course was the argument some folk were having where someone made the argument that Yoda used Force Push on the armor... not the guards, themselves...
Rules lawyery nitpicking, in my opinion, but some people might like that sort of thing.

 

[Corinth]

I disagree that Palpatine's deformity was a pre-existing condition. The Visual Dictionary states that it was Windu's reflection of his Force Lightning that deformed him, making it impossible for Palpatine to continue with his nice guy facade.

 

[Faraer]

Pushing living beings with the Force being inherently dark-side was always a shaky speculation, and the new film has nixed it.

The method of hiding oneself in the Force has been named in Labyrinth of Evil: it's the Quey'tek technique.

We know the Emperor's visage is Palpatine's true face. The novel and the Visual Dictionary indicate that he is scarred by the reflected Sith lightning to reflect his inner self, rather than being literally unmasked.

 

[AmorphousBlob]

We know the Emperor's visage is Palpatine's true face. The novel and the Visual Dictionary indicate that he is scarred by the reflected Sith lightning to reflect his inner self, rather than being literally unmasked.

Za? Am I the only one that thinks that statement contradicts itself? Please clarify.