Sympathetic Magic System

[GMMichael]

As it stands, I have energy spells dealing d10 damage, since it's a more specialized type of attack.

And you've got me thinking that the lethality bonus to a die (d6 is more lethal than a d4, so d6s get a +1), should apply to magic as well. The bonuses vary for weapons and armor, to add interest to them, but they could be pretty static for spells. d4, d6+1, d8+2, d10+3, d12+4, and d20+5. This would make the Quake attack deal 10d8+20, minimum-per-die of 3, versus the noble's minimum protection of 7. Which is still ugly, but at least the caster has a -chance- to get more than one damage per die.

Let it also be known that 1) shields are currently usable only with a defense action, and 2) perks and more interesting spells can easily drop the bratty noble's survivability against the legendary caster.

Taking half is purely designed to speed up play (without a calculator). AnyDice.com is a great idea.

And of course it's a judgement call by the caster, the problem is that the enemies need to be much wimpier than a 1st level noble in armor (or the caster has to be at least level 13) in order for it to ever be a good idea to divide damage between them.

This problem persists across other systems, and many video games as well. The solution is to include morale and injury into the equation - but evidently those are mechanics that game designers, or players, aren't very interested in. I would include both in a more advanced version of Modos RPG.

(Funny note: D&D 4 actually gave characters MORE power (bloodied powers?) as they took more damage, did it not?)

 

[Foxwarrior]

I don't understand the justification behind lethality bonuses. You make things that do more damage already get some more extra damage, because they were more damaging to begin with?

(Funny note: D&D 4 actually gave characters MORE power (bloodied powers?) as they took more damage, did it not?)

Death Spirals are not actually all that fun, so making creatures stronger when they get near death makes the endgames of fights into less of a tedious mop-up operation.

 

[GMMichael]

Lethality bonus: it started when I was looking at dagger damage and full plate mail. A dagger does d4 damage, and full plate does d10 damage reduction. If you roll a 1 for your plate mail protection, that plate mail was just as effective at protecting you as a really heavy sweater (padded armor). The lethality (efficiency?) bonus says that not even a bad roll will make your heavy armor worthless, or your massive weapon as gentle as a Q-tip.

Now I'm asking myself (you see how helpful feedback is?): does taking half eliminate the above need? The side (in combat) with better odds stands to benefit most from taking half. The guy wearing full plate wants to take half on his d10 rolls against the dagger. So he gets 5 protection, and the dagger attacker can't roll anything higher on his d4, so he has to settle for minimum damage (1 per die). The dagger fighter doesn't want to take half, because then he has really bad odds (0%?) of doing more than one damage, even if the full plate defender decides to roll.

Let's add efficiency bonuses. The full plate, on a bad roll of 1, does 5 protection (d10+4). The efficient dagger has a maximum damage of 5 (d4+1). So the armor-wearer doesn't even need to take half, he can roll anything and only take one damage from the dagger.

The way this looks: having armor with d10 protection can be really crummy, 2 out of 10 times. UNLESS you have the option to take half.

Does "take half" eliminate the need for efficiency bonuses?

 

[Bagpuss]

I boosted that to one hour, same as Mental damage. And the caster can spend an hour Concentrating to get two back instead. So casters effectively gain more spells per day by increasing their MP scores, and taking the Casting Endurance perk, which reduces MP casting damage by 1 (but not below 1).

Not sure how this improves the need to track time accurately out of combat any. Also makes casters into time sinks.... Fighter "Lets press on." Caster "No I need to sit on my arse for the next three hours if you want me to be any use."

 

[Bagpuss]

Does "take half" eliminate the need for efficiency bonuses?

I think the whole concept is flawed. You do realise daggers were still effective weapons against plate armour, as they were more precise than larger weapons. So you got in close and then in through the eye slit, or up between the plates, or to into the joints were there are no plates.

All weapons are potentially lethal, against virtual all armours, it's more what you do with it than what you use. Personally I prefer systems where you can kill someone with a teacup.

So I see nothing wrong with a case where the plate armour guy rolls a 1 on a d10, and his armour fails him. Perhaps he got an arrow in the eye, or the plates buckled under the blow, or found that chink in the armour.

 

[Bagpuss]

Reading your fireball example has me even more confused. You are saying he could wear plate to avoid the physical damage, if so suddenly he's gained the ability to do 5 dice damage an action compared to the fighters 1, and balance is out the window again.

 

[GMMichael]

1 hour Mental healing:
Yes, you have to keep track of time. No, you don't need a watch for it. It's not that hard, is it?
If the caster says, "hang on an hour, I need to meditate," isn't that better than D&D's (pre-Forry) "hang on a day, I need to meditate?"

Lethal daggers:
Sure. You can strike between the plates. But I don't see a lot of medieval artwork depicting hordes of soldiers going into battle with daggers. Plus, you can shove a sword all the way through your enemy. A dagger, well, maybe you could pierce a lung.

Fireball example:
You're right up until comparison to fighters. Casters will take casting damage, unless they use actions to avoid that damage. So a caster can do 5 dice of damage for one action, but he'll be taking 4 dice of damage (reduced by protection). The fighter does one die per action, doesn't take any damage, and doesn't need to spend metaphysical points to do it.

 

[Foxwarrior]

I don't see a lot of medieval artwork depicting hordes of soldiers going into battle with daggers.

I don't see a lot of modern artwork depicting hordes of soldiers going into battle with rocks, but rocks can still sometimes kill people.

What are daggers good for, in your system?

 

[GMMichael]

Modos dagger discussion:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...odos-RPG-Ode-to-Daggers&p=6140626#post6140626

Trying to avoid a derail.

 

[Bagpuss]

1 hour Mental healing:
Yes, you have to keep track of time. No, you don't need a watch for it. It's not that hard, is it?
If the caster says, "hang on an hour, I need to meditate," isn't that better than D&D's (pre-Forry) "hang on a day, I need to meditate?"

You know there was a reason they got rid of it. And yes in some ways it is worse, at least in pre-4th D&D it happened on one occasion, in this system the caster could be holding up the party several times a day. Also there is the introduction of "DM may I?" In that an encounter occurs and it is really up to the DM how much MP points you've gained back so what spells you can cast, the player doesn't know what they can and can't do, and make decisions around that.

Lethal daggers:
Sure. You can strike between the plates. But I don't see a lot of medieval artwork depicting hordes of soldiers going into battle with daggers. Plus, you can shove a sword all the way through your enemy. A dagger, well, maybe you could pierce a lung.

Well apart from the fat most swords didn't go all the way through, a pierced lung from a dagger is just as lethal as pierced lung from a sword. Also you don't see many illustrations of armoured mages but your system seems to want to encourage that.

Fireball example:
You're right up until comparison to fighters. Casters will take casting damage, unless they use actions to avoid that damage. So a caster can do 5 dice of damage for one action, but he'll be taking 4 dice of damage (reduced by protection). The fighter does one die per action, doesn't take any damage, and doesn't need to spend metaphysical points to do it.

True, but it is the a flawed action economy. If the mage can offset most of that damage through protection, then he is doing 5 times more "stuff" every action than the fighter. And in most fights that will be what it important, it doesn't matter if the caster takes a bit of MP damage, since once the enemy is dead, he can just make everyone wait for him to regain them over several hours.