tail wags dog: streamers want to say 'aaargh' so we are getting a pirate adventure

[Gradine]

The definitive Star Wars movie ranking, bee-tee-dubs:

1) The Empire Strikes Back - Needs no explanation.
2) The Last Jedi - I'll admit to being kind of bummed out the first time I left the theatre, but the more times I watched it the more I started to appreciate it. It ain't a perfect film, but it's definitely a great one. Also, the best nameless* bad guy general in Star Wars, period.
3) Return of the Jedi - This is mostly nostalgia talking, but I was at the exact target for this film; still young enough to get Ewoks, also was playing a crapton of X-Wing and TIE Fighter on my hand-me-down x486. Yes, it's got a lot of problems, but it's also got the best space battle in the series, and that was enough 8-year-old Gradine to wear out his bootleg VHS-taped-off-of-network-TV tape.
4) A New Hope - I think this one is underappreciated in a lot of ways, but it's still a really good film.
5) The Force Awakens - See above.
6) Solo - Yes, there were quite a few questionable decisions in here. But did I have fun? Yeah, I had fun.
7) Rogue One - If I could split this into two films, the second half would be right up there at the top. I had kind of the opposite experience as with TLJ; I walked out of the theatre with a massive grin on my face, but the more I watched it the more I realized how dreadfully dull the film's first half was. Basically an entire hour and a half of Forrest Whittaker chewing scenery, pointless interparty conflict, and Felicity Jones desperately trying to display what most humans would describe as "emotion". That final act though.
8) The Phantom Menace - Hear me out. I would argue that this is only prequel trilogy that actually succeeded at what it set out to do. Was what it set out to do a bad idea from the start? Oh, of course. But my four-year-old thinks Jar Jar is hilarious and gets super excited whenever Annie (the sun'll come out... tomorrow!) does anything noteworthy, which is a good chunk of the movie. Also features the best lightsaber battle in the series (at least until TLJ happened). And Qui-Gon.
9) Revenge of the Sith - This is not as good of a movie as everyone likes to pretend that it is. I know; I watched it recently. It's an absolute mess. Okay, the whole "rescue Palpatine" sequence is pretty good, I guess. But the rest is mostly horrendous dialogue, awful Palpatine memes, and youngling slaughter. I guess it's nice to see Ewan McGregor still trying his hardest, bless him.
10) Attack of the Clones - Needs no explanation.**

*This being a Star Wars film, of course he has a name; I just don't know it because I haven't bought the relevant action figure and/or Lego set yet
**To be fair, this film probably features the best Action Padme.

 

[Mr. Wilson]

OOOH, we're ranking Star Wars Films. I'm in.

1.) The Empire Strikes Back
2.) Rogue One
3.) A New Hope
4.) Return of the Jedi
5.) Solo
6.) Revenge of the Sith
7.) The Force Awakens
8.) The Phantom Menace
9.) Attack of the Clones
10.) The Last Jedi

There is a huge gap between 5 & 6, then another huge gap between 8 & 9, then a chasm the size of the Mariana Trench between 9 and 10.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Gradine]

1. Empire Strikes Back.

2. The Last Jedi.

...

18. Fully realizing that a space opera that you enjoyed for a few years in your youth and still appreciate to this day is not only nothing more than more corporate IP that Disney is using to take over the world and everyone’s brains, but is also the breeding ground for a peculiar and nasty strain of nerd-rage with a side-dose of toxic masculinity that frightens the hell out of you.

19. Attack of the Clones.

I can't really disagree with any this.

Except for Solo. Solo was fun! Wookiee Life Day is not fun.

Also missing from your otherwise definitive list: The Star Wars episode of The Muppet Show.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Savage Wombat]

I think that making Jyn's father responsible for the Death Star Flaw (i.e. lack of safety railings anywhere) was the writer's attempt to make the Plans less of a MacGuffin in the limited confines of the single movie being written. They needed to be connected to the protagonists somehow.

 

[Reynard]

Solo is a better movie than Rogue One. There are a lot of reasons, but the biggest one is that it is far more coherent. I love Rogue One but you can see the seams as they rebuilt the thing mid way through productions. Characters had unearned turns and the plot wibbles and wobbles. Solo did poorly largely because of its timing. Had they waited until the Holiday season or even the summer, it would have done much better. Plus, it finally let a film dig into a portion of the SW universe that has always been around and always been important but has been relegated primarily to EU support like comics and novels.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Charlaquin]

8) The Phantom Menace - Hear me out. I would argue that this is only prequel trilogy that actually succeeded at what it set out to do. Was what it set out to do a bad idea from the start? Oh, of course. But my four-year-old thinks Jar Jar is hilarious and gets super excited whenever Annie (the sun'll come out... tomorrow!) does anything noteworthy, which is a good chunk of the movie. Also features the best lightsaber battle in the series (at least until TLJ happened). And Qui-Gon.
9) Revenge of the Sith - This is not as good of a movie as everyone likes to pretend that it is. I know; I watched it recently. It's an absolute mess. Okay, the whole "rescue Palpatine" sequence is pretty good, I guess. But the rest is mostly horrendous dialogue, awful Palpatine memes, and youngling slaughter. I guess it's nice to see Ewan McGregor still trying his hardest, bless him.

A lot of people over-rate Revenge because of Vader and under-rate Menace because of Jar-Jar. I’m less enamoured with the Maul fight than I used to be though. As time goes on, I find my taste moving away from the highly choreographed, acrobatic fights of the prequels, and towards more straightforward swordsmanship of the originals. Of course Luke vs. Kylo is the best lightsaber conflict of the series so far, but as it’s hardly a fight, I’d actually put Rey vs. Kylo as my favorite lightsaber fight. It’s got the dynamic motion that I like in the prequel’s duels, but without the gratuitous blade spinning and aerial flipping that makes it look too much like a dance, and with a certain brutal ugliness to their moves that clearly communicates that both combatants have a lot of innate power, but lack refinement and training.

 

[Charlaquin]

I think that making Jyn's father responsible for the Death Star Flaw (i.e. lack of safety railings anywhere) was the writer's attempt to make the Plans less of a MacGuffin in the limited confines of the single movie being written. They needed to be connected to the protagonists somehow.

I disagree. First of all, any machinery needs ventilation, so there’s nothing particularly glaring about that being the death star’s weakness. More importantly, it was symbolic of the empire’s hubris, and the film’s greater themes of individualism vs collectivism and faith vs technology. The Empire was a massive military machine with absolute trust in the superiority of their tech. The unguarded hole just big enough for an individual fighter to exploit to bring the whole thing down represents the inability for such systems of power to recognize individuals and take their power seriously. The rebellion is a small, loose affiliation of individuals, who put their trust in The Force. They’re able to defeat the empire not in spite of being the underdog, but because of it. And they are only successful once Luke rejects the technology completely and acts on faith.

Making the death star’s weakness an intentional act of sabotage may connect it to the characters, but at the cost of weakening the themes of the original film. It changes the empire’s Achilles heel from a flaw of their own creation, born of their nature as a massive system, into a product of the rebellion, and in so doing muddies the message of the story.