Take 10.5

[Musrum]

This is my variation on "The Players Roll everything".

The NPCs take 10.5 on every opposed roll: AC; attack; grapple check etc.
In the case of PC vs PC, the defender takes 10.5.

This means that every attack, skill check and save in the game is determined by a single d20 roll.

No secret DCs.
As a general rule all DCs are given to the PCs. This will give a cruchy backup to the descriptive fluff: "The Ogre Barbarian takes a mightly swing at you with a wicked looking greatsword. Roll AC vs DC 35.5".

Where uncertainty and doubt are required, the DM could take the player's roll from a pre-rolled list (rolled by the player).

 

[comrade raoul]

It's a good variant if you're happy with more rolling and less uncertainty, which I think I would be but is certainly not for everyone and probably suboptimal in a few situations. (You should not know an opponent's AC if you are using Power Attack, for example.)

I thought you were proposing a feat which improved taking 10, though, which struck me as a surprisingly neat idea. Something along the lines of:

Competent [General]
You have your act together, in general.
Benefit: When you take 10 on a check, increase your check result by 1.

Probably, though, it's the sort of feat that almost nobody would take.

 

[Musrum]

The power attack issue is a good one.

The "No secret DCs" option certainly make it easier to work out the optimal amount of BAB to convert to damage.

In the normal game, you can get a fix on opponents AC after two attacks (there is a 1/200 chance of this). Usually the AC resolves itself over 2-3 rounds.

The question is: Is it unreasonable for a fighter to know his opponent's AC up front?

There are specific circumstances where an opponent may attempt to appear more (or less) easier to hit, but mostly a fighter can tell: that someone is in full-plate; they are dodging about; or they have a thick scaly hide.

What does a secret AC add to the game?



The Competent feat might be worth taking if it allowed you to take 15.

 

[Stalker0]

Keep in mind that you are in fact changing the probabilities of opposed rolls with this variant.

For example, opposed grapple checks. Lets say you have a creature with a very large grapple check versus a PC with only a decent one (and frankly, this happens all the time once you start fighting huge creatures).

If you keep the creatures grapple check a mid range constant, the PC may have NO chance of escape. The only chance the player can escape is if both the creature rolls low and the player rolls high. So you have actually changed very significantly how grapple check play out.

 

[Stalker0]

The Competent feat might be worth taking if it allowed you to take 15.

I would say go with the +1, and then pick one skill that you can take 10 all the time (basically a minor skill mastery). That would make it a bit more attractive. But if I could take 15 on all my rolls, I would never roll

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

It's a good variant if you're happy with more rolling and less uncertainty, which I think I would be but is certainly not for everyone and probably suboptimal in a few situations. (You should not know an opponent's AC if you are using Power Attack, for example.)

I thought you were proposing a feat which improved taking 10, though, which struck me as a surprisingly neat idea. Something along the lines of:
Probably, though, it's the sort of feat that almost nobody would take.

I like it! When I play a rogue, I pick up skill mastery with the first special ability and get it for critical skills like disable device, bluff, and UMD. A plus 1 to all of those checks AND the security to take ten and let the modifiers alone determine success would be awesome! At least to me.

As for the person who suggested take 15, that's just way too powerful. Compare: with this, to increase the automatic result by five, from 10 to 15, you just have to spend a feat. To increase it that same amount (+5) from 15 to 20, you have to increase the use time by a multiple of twenty and it cannot be done on any skill where failing once foils retries (or other consequences, like falling off a cliff or getting zapped by the wand). I think a feat to either up take 10 to take 15, but limited to skills where failure doesn't matter or a feat that halved the time it takes to take 20 would be more viable, but still iffy.

 

[the Jester]

I thought you were proposing a feat which improved taking 10, though, which struck me as a surprisingly neat idea. Something along the lines of:
Probably, though, it's the sort of feat that almost nobody would take.

That's what I thought, too...

I gave the abilty to 'take 12' on a couple of skills to a prestige class imc.

 

[reanjr]

I thought you were proposing a feat which improved taking 10, though, which struck me as a surprisingly neat idea. Something along the lines of:
Probably, though, it's the sort of feat that almost nobody would take.

I'd take that in a heartbeat. It's actually too powerful. I take 10 on just about everything unless I have a good idea that the result is going to fail.

 

[comrade raoul]

I'd take that in a heartbeat. It's actually too powerful. I take 10 on just about everything unless I have a good idea that the result is going to fail.

+1 to a bunch of skill checks that you can't use in combat or other risky situations is probably not all that great. Compare it to Open Minded, which gives you five extra skill points and is probably balanced.

 

[reanjr]

+1 to a bunch of skill checks that you can't use in combat or other risky situations is probably not all that great. Compare it to Open Minded, which gives you five extra skill points and is probably balanced.

+1 to:
Appraise (nice to be that much more sure)
Balance (potentially life saving)
Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Intimidate (that's quite the socialite)
Climb (potentially life saving)
Craft, Profession (earn more money)
Hide, Move Silently, Listen, Spot (scout extraordinaire)
Tumble (good for falling)

I'd say that's overpowered. Perhaps not in a dungeon crawl style game, but in a wilderness/city politics game, that's alot of bonuses.