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D&D (2024) Take A Closer Look At The 2024 Dungeon Master’s Guide

WotC shares video with a deeper dive

Wizards of the Coast has just shared a video delving into the upcoming One D&D Dungeon Master’s Guide, due for release in 2024.


Scroll down to post #4, below, for a more detailed text summary!
  • Chapter 1 -- basic concepts
  • Chapter 2 -- Advice, common issues
  • Chapter 3 -- Rules cyclopedia
  • Chapter 4 -- Adventure building
  • Chapter 5 -- Campaign building
  • Chapter 6 -- Cosmology
  • Chapter 7 -- Magic items
  • Chapter 8 -- 'A surprise'
  • Appendices -- maps, lore glossary
 

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Chaosmancer

Legend
It's a section of advice targeted at an audience other than the one that needs to be the one getting the information in order to meet any useful goal. The PHB & DMG are written for the same game but need to have information that targets the side of a gm screen that most effectively supports the game. Pert of that involves putting information in the book that needs it. Unfortunately this is a case where the GM starts out fighting uphill & against the current because of how the PHB so deeply pushes "you be you [don't worry about the unmentioned GM & rest of table]" to players.

No, they are targeting the one they need to reach a useful goal. Let's say that they put all this in the PHB, and the player's show up expecting a sessions zero... and get a session 1 because the DM planned a session 1 instead. Is there going to be an effective sessions zero? Not likely. The DM schedules the sessions, so they have to schedule session 0.

And, again, maybe you haven't read the PHB in a while, but the PHB is packed. Let's call it 300 pages. The PHB spends over the first third of the book presenting the player options to make their character. Race, Class, Background. approximately 125 pages. There is then another over one-third spent on the rules of the game. How do ability scores work, spells, how does combat work, how does this sub-system work. It is from 170 to 290. So, that is 240 pages out of a 300 page book devoted to purely "how to make a character and how to play the game" Rather important. The remaining 60 pages? Equipment for your character and feats for your character.

Sure, maybe there are things they could have taken out to transplant this entire section in, but here's the point. There isn't exactly a lot of room for a philosophical discussion on the relationship between the player, the other players, and the GM. The game figures, like most games, that you are playing with a group of people who want to be there, and you can all figure out how to cooperate.

In this case the TCoE session zero section

Wait wait wait, you're quoting Tasha's? Tasha's, the book packed to the brim with player options? I'm in a different country right now and don't have a digital copy of Tasha's, but it is like... 80% player content. So why are you griping that this isn't player facing? Players use Tasha FAR more than DMs do. That's about as player facing as you can get.

is targeted at some vanishingly small segment of the community made up of players who really want to have a session zero but can't because the GM doesn't believe it's a thing if wotc didn't publish it. That crumb of a slice of a slice is probably not large enough to justify having nearly three full pages devoted to it making it a pretty big failure to support players who don't know what it is. The whole quest in 5e's design was simplicity at all costs no matter the cost, supposedly to make it easy for new players... A session zero section that dumps the entire task of getting the bulk of the table up to speed on what is assumed by the text to be the freshest & noobiest of newbie DMs who don't even know what a session zero is fails once more in a category that results in actively making things needlessly difficult for the only remaining person at the table not directly failed by the first failure.

I'm honestly having trouble even parsing this. The section is a failure because you don't think it is player facing (which, turns out it is) and that it is for only for GMs who don't believe it is real (it isn't) and expecting the DM to lead a session of the game where they are expected to lead game sessions is a failure because it puts too much pressure on the DM to cooperate with a group of people they are expected to cooperate with?

My man, if you as a DM can't sit and ask some players "okay, what are you playing? Okay, how about you?" even if they aren't in the same building at the time, you are going to have far far larger problems in the future.

Session zero advice needs to be in the PHB not DMG & written towards getting the players ready to constructively participate in session zero rather than writing it to dump the task of doing that on a DM who doesn't even know what a session zero is. The GM facing section in the DMG need not even exist simply because there should be general sections about the very ongoing GM side collaboration things like working with players on X.

I really don't know what to say, considering you cut the vast majority of my response to you, but frankly, you're just wrong. You seem to think it not being in the PHB somehow means that you will get belligerent players who refuse to work together, but that if you had it in the PHB then magically they would be model teammates. It doesn't work that way.

And the only thing the players have to be willing to do to "constructively" have a session zero is 1) Answer questions 2) Be willing to work together with the DM and the other players. Incidentally, the same things they need to be willing to do to play a game of DnD. And the information in Tasha's is also player facing, so that's like... your entire complaint gone.
 

Yep that one. The one where they constantly refer to it as One D&D.

Anyway, it’s not D&D…it‘s Hasbro’s house ruled garbage…made by a company that wants to squeeze you for every last cent with it’s upcoming D&D XS Ultimate Game Pass release. It’s soulless modern corporate sludge. Enjoy.
Maybe you would have more of a point, if you had any evidence for your statement.
 


tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
@tetrasodium it feels like you are assuming the DM and players all start hostile towards each other.
not at all. Most of them fall into a few categories:

  • 1: Newbies who honestly don't know how to participate in a session zero who have been given abhorrent expectations of stardom & Main Character positioning by wotc & 5e's player facing rulebooks, they are actively put on the wrong track by the core rules. I obviously lack anything to point them at a constructive path towards collaboration because the PHB is going to sabotage my efforts there & the TCoE session zero section seems written towards a hostile GM who doesn't even know what a session zero is & it almost entirely skips over players.
  • 2: Newbies who feel overloaded & can't be directed to some useful player facing text while I'm helping a different player. Players who aim to win a game with no win state & want to use anything they can
  • 3: experienced players who learned how to constructively collaborate with the GM & don't really care to do it now or are entirely capable of improvising session zero type stuff during play. Player facing text that points groups 1&2 in this direction while the GM is busy working with one player at a time on something session zero-ish in topic
  • 4: Players who may or may not care if there is a session zero for whatever reason & just want to start playing but lack any guidance in text or mechanical pressure to collaborate with the other players in character building because PHB11-15 "Chapter 1: Step by step character creation" actively steers players away from collaborating on anything before they have a fully completed character.

Wait wait wait, you're quoting Tasha's? Tasha's, the book packed to the brim with player options? I'm in a different country right now and don't have a digital copy of Tasha's, but it is like... 80% player content. So why are you griping that this isn't player facing? Players use Tasha FAR more than DMs do. That's about as player facing as you can get.
This started with you quoting a post that begins with the following:

In an effort to get back on topic I want to talk about the TCoE session zero rules mentioned by Perkins. They are on page 139 v& pretty much continue on to 141 with various related tangents. On more than one occasion I've gone to look for those rules because someone mentioned them, but each time I'm quickly reminded "oh yea, I scrobbed them from my memory because they are useless to me as a GM". I might even be giving them too much credit there because I spent a while trying to decide if they are actively harmful or just needlessly hostile but decided it's close enough that they are just useless.

Through those pages the GM is given the following responsibilities:
It's not like I was keeping the source of the session zero rules a secret or trying to obscure their source. Not only did I make it clear, I also pointed out that Perkins brought them up as an example of something great to move into the DMG.

The session zero rules in TCoE are not useful for inclusion in the DMG because they fasil to reach a "useful goal" by targeting a thought experiment caricature of a bad super-newbie GM who is almost certain to lack the skills needed to teach their players how to participate constructively & run with that constructive participation on their own. Almost everything the TCoE session zero section talks about is stuff that a GM should often be doing throughout the campaign & should have sections dedicated to those things individually (if at all) rather than a quick summary. The biggest nail in the skullfor that TCoE section though is PHB pages 11-15 where players are actively guided away from collaborating or considering anyone else at the table until they have a fully created character. Instead of the hold my beer intro players should have one that covers their role in session zero as part of chargen because much of it is important no matter when they are making a character or if they are meeting face to face for a session dubbed session zero instead of a quick colab over a group chat.


Since you don;t have your book, here is the start of that session zero section that Perkins taled up up as an example of something great to add into the DMG in the video
1682123036877.png


Even if that was player facing elsewhere in the book the actual text on 139-141 is not actually written towards players & talks almost exclusively about what a GM should be doing during session zero with much of it at odds with the player facing PHB11-15 section on character creation & the later PHB section on backgrounds that likewise encourages players to take an isolated you be you outlook.
 

not at all. Most of them fall into a few categories:

  • 1: Newbies who honestly don't know how to participate in a session zero who have been given abhorrent expectations of stardom & Main Character positioning by wotc & 5e's player facing rulebooks, they are actively put on the wrong track by the core rules. I obviously lack anything to point them at a constructive path towards collaboration because the PHB is going to sabotage my efforts there & the TCoE session zero section seems written towards a hostile GM who doesn't even know what a session zero is & it almost entirely skips over players.
  • 2: Newbies who feel overloaded & can't be directed to some useful player facing text while I'm helping a different player. Players who aim to win a game with no win state & want to use anything they can
  • 3: experienced players who learned how to constructively collaborate with the GM & don't really care to do it now or are entirely capable of improvising session zero type stuff during play. Player facing text that points groups 1&2 in this direction while the GM is busy working with one player at a time on something session zero-ish in topic
  • 4: Players who may or may not care if there is a session zero for whatever reason & just want to start playing but lack any guidance in text or mechanical pressure to collaborate with the other players in character building because PHB11-15 "Chapter 1: Step by step character creation" actively steers players away from collaborating on anything before they have a fully completed character.


This started with you quoting a post that begins with the following:


It's not like I was keeping the source of the session zero rules a secret or trying to obscure their source. Not only did I make it clear, I also pointed out that Perkins brought them up as an example of something great to move into the DMG.

The session zero rules in TCoE are not useful for inclusion in the DMG because they fasil to reach a "useful goal" by targeting a thought experiment caricature of a bad super-newbie GM who is almost certain to lack the skills needed to teach their players how to participate constructively & run with that constructive participation on their own. Almost everything the TCoE session zero section talks about is stuff that a GM should often be doing throughout the campaign & should have sections dedicated to those things individually (if at all) rather than a quick summary. The biggest nail in the skullfor that TCoE section though is PHB pages 11-15 where players are actively guided away from collaborating or considering anyone else at the table until they have a fully created character. Instead of the hold my beer intro players should have one that covers their role in session zero as part of chargen because much of it is important no matter when they are making a character or if they are meeting face to face for a session dubbed session zero instead of a quick colab over a group chat.


Since you don;t have your book, here is the start of that session zero section that Perkins taled up up as an example of something great to add into the DMG in the video


Even if that was player facing elsewhere in the book the actual text on 139-141 is not actually written towards players & talks almost exclusively about what a GM should be doing during session zero with much of it at odds with the player facing PHB11-15 section on character creation & the later PHB section on backgrounds that likewise encourages players to take an isolated you be you outlook.
So I see nothing about isolation. Given that during a session 0 players normally make characters together.
Also across all my games, I have never met any of the four types of player you describe who all want to ignore each other.

Also pretty sure the PHB does not give impressions of character stardom. Though I am pretty sure the player characters are supposed to be the main characters.
 

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
So I see nothing about isolation. Given that during a session 0 players normally make characters together.
Also across all my games, I have never met any of the four types of player you describe who all want to ignore each other.

Also pretty sure the PHB does not give impressions of character stardom. Though I am pretty sure the player characters are supposed to be the main characters.
It's right here in step six where for the first time it encourages talking to other players & the GM. Unfortunately the first five steps are the ones that cover every aspect of building a character & much of what is normally covered in S0. Other players are not mentioned in the first 5 steps & the DM is only mentioned in passing to note that they might give the player more options. As written the GM needs to fight the player facing guidance just to clawback the very idea that they should be involved at all.
 

It's right here in step six where for the first time it encourages talking to other players & the GM. Unfortunately the first five steps are the ones that cover every aspect of building a character & much of what is normally covered in S0. Other players are not mentioned in the first 5 steps & the DM is only mentioned in passing to note that they might give the player more options. As written the GM needs to fight the player facing guidance just to clawback the very idea that they should be involved at all.
You seem to think this conflicts with the DM advice to talk to the players. It doesn’t.
 

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