taking 10 - exactly what skills and skill uses are covered?

[starwed]

Actually, I think under a strict reading of RAW, that's the case.

Yup, if you try a knowledge check and fail, this indicates that:

The check represents what you know, and thinking about a topic a second time doesn’t let you know something that you never learned in the first place.

 

[Mistwell]

Exactly! Mistwell's example about the license plate is not how knowledge checks work: what would be more like it is if someone asked your plate's number while jumping up and down and that determined if you ever knew it, ever.

That's an oddness of the Knowledge rule however, not the take 10 rule. You can take 10 on the check.

Mistwell, I believe you're saying that a hide check can be made in advance, and since its done without threat, you can take 10.

Yes.

The hide skill description itself is not helpful in determining when you actually make a hide check, except that it is "normally" made "as part of movement." This seems to lend credence to Transit's POV, but it's certainly not irrefutable, especially since invisibility adds 40 to your hide check "if you are immobile."

The real answer, of course, is that this is the beginning of another thread topic.

I think the "normal" is assuming the standard dungeon crawl where you are trying to hide while moving silently. The rules tend to assume a dungeon crawl of moving adventurers. However, I think there is no requirement that you move while hiding, and that an ambush situation is a pretty common event, and must involved the hide skill.

 

[TYPO5478]

I consistently know my vehicle's license plate number. But only if I take a moment and really think about it. If asked for my license plate number under pressure, I have about a 50% chance of not being able to remember it. That's just how memory works sometimes.

If I were to take an exam involving recall of information (which is common), I will produce much more consistent answers if I am in a quiet room than if I have a person screaming at me all the time and jumping up and down. The screaming and jumping might actually produce the occasional burst of brilliance, because pressure can sometimes result in that sort of thing. Or it could result in a much poorer answer. But my performance will be much more erratic than if it were a quiet room.

That's exactly my point. Even though the Knowledge skill description says it's a measure of what a character knows, it operates more like a measure of what a character can remember.

 

[evilbob]

That's exactly my point. Even though the Knowledge skill description says it's a measure of what a character knows, it operates more like a measure of what a character can remember.

Except it isn't. But you're right: it's very similar, and even the wording is confusing since it includes the word "remember" but also includes "know."

I will completely conceed to Mistwell that this is a strangeness of the knowledge skill and not the "take 10" mechanic, however.

 

[Jhulae]

Hmmm can you take 10 on a reflexive check?

The example in the PHB infers that taking ten is being careful.

""With a little care, he can take 10 and succeed automatically."

That is how I've always viewed taking 10 - taking care or being careful in an attempt - which is why you can't do it when rushed or threatened.

Taking twenty is attempting it over and over until you get it "right" or the best you can do.

Except, it's not reflexive until there's a threat or distraction. If your party is walking by an ambush and the DM says "Everyone make a spot check", at that point, no combat is going on and there's no threat nor distraction. The party is just walking along. Take 10 if you wish.

Once combat starts, you can't Take 10 to notice the rogue sneaking up from hiding or whatever, because there is a threat and/or distraction (combat) going on.

 

[Hussar]

*snip*
There's no way for the PC to hide or move silently while he's safe at home alone, without threat or distraction, and then use that later on to sneak past a monster. He has to make the checks AT THE MOMENT that the monster has a chance to see or hear him.

Spot opposed by Hide. Listen opposed by Move Silently. One mistake and the PC is caught. That's threat and distraction right there.

No PC is going to be able to remain calm and do his "average" job of hiding and moving silently when he knows that if he fails, the monster he's hiding from will instantly attack him.

And if the monster trying to spot the PC isn't a threat, then no checks would be needed. The PC can just walk right past it in broad daylight, wave hello, smile and keep going.

Ultimately, it's up to the DM to decide what will and won't work with Take 10 in his own campaign. But in my opinion it's pretty obvious that whenever someone hides or moves silently, it's because the person they're hiding from is a threat. Therefore, no Take 10 allowed.

I agree and disagree. I disagree with the idea that a single hide check is made beforehand when setting up an ambush. You make hide checks when there is an observer. Hide is an opposed check and thus can only be made when there is opposition. At least, that's how I interpret hide checks.

OTOH, I have no problem with saying that being in a nice comfy blind, well concealed, gives you the ability to Take 10 on your hide check, and also provides you with the cover required to make the hide check in the first place.

 

[Old Gumphrey]

....Anyone with 1 rank in profession and at least an 8 in Wis can make 5g / week.

Wait, a commoner with a profession that works a full time week can make enough money to feed their family and pay rent? That's STUPID. Ban it.

This isn't Earth Middle Ages...it's fantasy land. Commoners don't have to be starving diseased dirt poor unwashed losers indebted to a noble lord forever and ever until they die. Since there are good-guy heroes that can smite the crap out of your face for eviling all over your subjects it's probably within reason for most rulers to leave taxes bearable and pay wages that make sense.

More on topic, you can take 10 on a LOT of stuff a LOT of the time, and I've seen some really, really stupid things happen when taking 10 is limited or used improperly. Taking 10 is legal, fun, and it makes sense. Use it.

 

[irdeggman]

Except, it's not reflexive until there's a threat or distraction. If your party is walking by an ambush and the DM says "Everyone make a spot check", at that point, no combat is going on and there's no threat nor distraction. The party is just walking along. Take 10 if you wish.

Once combat starts, you can't Take 10 to notice the rogue sneaking up from hiding or whatever, because there is a threat and/or distraction (combat) going on.

Well we look at it differently since Spot is "free" action when the DM calls for it (like to determine suprise or for an elf merely passing by a secret door) (which I interprete as well "free" and taking no time whatsoever).

I also read the example of the take 10 rules as "being careful".

Spot can also be an active skill as when you try to spot something that you failed to see previously it is a move action.

When it is used in a reactive manner I don't see how someone can be "careful" when used actively (i.e., as a move action) I can see someone being careful - unless distracted or threatened.