D&D 5E Taking a second look at attack bonuses

[Blackwarder]

I've updated the op table with clear tier division. I'm mostly interested in the adventuring tier, so I'm mostly concerned with that and in that tier the fighter goes from +1 to +9 the rogue and cleric goes from +1 to +7 and the mage goes from +0 to +4.

I haven't really thought about saving throws or spells DC yet I agree with Iosue that it's might be a problem but I honestly don't have enough experience with Next spell system So I don'r what to comment.

Warder

 

[the Jester]

And why is that a bad thing? Not that I agree with you but what's wrong with having a super fighter with maxed strength and magic weapon missing only once every 20 swings?

Warder

It's fine to always hit when you're fighting giants and trolls at high levels; it's less satisfying if you can't miss Demogorgon or Asmodeus except on a 1. (Again, at least to me- this is all about playstyle choice.)

 

[Blackwarder]

It's fine to always hit when you're fighting giants and trolls at high levels; it's less satisfying if you can't miss Demogorgon or Asmodeus except on a 1. (Again, at least to me- this is all about playstyle choice.)

Yeah, but why do you think that Demogorgon or Asmodeus will have AC no higher than 20?

Warder

 

[the Jester]

Yeah, but why do you think that Demogorgon or Asmodeus will have AC no higher than 20?

Warder

Because, in the current monster packet, Asmodeus clocks in (IIRC) at AC 17.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Exactly. Aside from rare cases where monsters have extremely high ability scores, a they have only a slim chance of saving versus a 20th level, 20 Int wizard.

The real problem here is that stat modifiers are to high. It causes so many problems throughout the system. If modifiers from stats went up to a maximum of +3(at 20) then even monsters with low stats would have at least some chance of saving.

However, I agree that some bonus to saves from being higher level needs to be in the game as well.

 

[Blackwarder]

Because, in the current monster packet, Asmodeus clocks in (IIRC) at AC 17.

And don't you find it a little bit odd that the duke of hell got a lower AC than a farmer wearing full plate and using a shield?

Warder

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

And don't you find it a little bit odd that the duke of hell got a lower AC than a farmer wearing full plate and using a shield?

Not necessarily. I could definitely see an argument for "His flesh is strong, but it's not steel strong. AC is just a measurement of how difficult it is to get your sword to stick into his flesh. After that, he has so many hitpoints that it's unlikely you'll hurt him at all."

I actually kind of like that interpretation of AC. I would like to see no monster having a better AC than about 22.

Then again, I'd like to see bonuses to hit from stats going away.

 

[the Jester]

And don't you find it a little bit odd that the duke of hell got a lower AC than a farmer wearing full plate and using a shield?

Warder

Yes, but that's a completely separate issue.

The fact is, as the game looks now, with your mods in place, the high-level fighter autohits the Prince of Hell.

 

[Blackwarder]

Yes, but that's a completely separate issue.

The fact is, as the game looks now, with your mods in place, the high-level fighter autohits the Prince of Hell.

Not in my game he wont

Not that I expect my players to fight the prince of hell but I don't believe that Wizards will keep the current monster states.

Warder

 

[Blackbrrd]

I don't want scaling of attack bonuses like it's presented in the OP, I want a much flatter progression. I would rather see the scaling at the HP side of the combat equation, and even there I don't want hit dice+ability modifier, but just hit dice per level.

4e's way of doing it with con stat+ hit dice for starting hp is also something I think is appropriate, although if level 3 is where you start if you don't want to do the farmer to hero transition, I am ok with the current very low hp at level 1.

To sum it up: I don't like scaling attack bonuses and AC from level gain.