Talent trees

[Vigilance]

Very true. Thanks for the clarification.

I agree that it does provide a nice alternative method of diversification so we don't have to rely on feats for everything.

Cheers

Talents, along with Allegiances, are one of the things that make Modern such a great, great design, and I try to use them whenever I can

Feats are great, lord knows I have made my share, but Talents are an better method of individuality, because, at least the way I do them, they arent abilities you can get any other way, so they not only allow for individual characters, but unique characters.

Chuck

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Very true. Thanks for the clarification.

I agree that it does provide a nice alternative method of diversification so we don't have to rely on feats for everything.

Cheers

Hey PlaneSailing!

I think, talents are to Modern as "class abilities" are to D&D. Unlike feats (which anyone can get), talents require you to take a level in a specific class.

So if you wanted to make talents from other class abilities-- let's say, oh, sneak attack-- you'd create a sneak attack talent tree for the... well, I'd make it Smart, though most people would argue for Fast.

In Grim Tales I have pulled all the talents away from the core class descriptions and put them in a Talents chapter, along with a lot of new talent trees. The talents include a notation by core class-- sometimes two core classes. So you'd see

Sneak Attack [Fast, Smart]
description

as an entry.

This is an important reason not to make a Sneak Attack FEAT, or an Evasion FEAT, or an Uncanny Dodge FEAT. These should all be talents...

Wulf

 

[Vigilance]

I totally agree- one of my special ops talent trees is "silent kill" which is a sneak attack.

One reason I opted to make this a prestige class talent is that sneak attack becomes deadlier with the massive damage rules in effect- still totally appropriate for special ops.

Chuck

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I totally agree- one of my special ops talent trees is "silent kill" which is a sneak attack.

Not to get on a sneak attack sidetrack here--

Has anybody found that sneak attack unbalances their Spycraft game?

Do you believe it would be inherently broken in the Modern system, with the much lower Massive Damage Threshold?

How would you "fix" it?

Me, I'd just eliminate the ability to use sneak attack when flanking. It's still worthwhile even if you can only use it when the target is flat-footed or denied Dex bonus.

On the other hand, it may be "fixed" as is, since a character picking up the "Sneak Attack" talent (+1d6 each time you take it) is presumably forgoing any other talents.

Wulf

 

[Plane Sailing]

Lot of very good points about talents. I'm completely swung around to your viewpoint(s) now. The point about being an ability which is only gained through a particular class (or classes) is especially good. And it is clearly better than standard "class abilities" in that it moves a character class away from being a cookie-cutter implementation of a particular archtype.

Wulf, I'm glad to hear that work is progressing well on Grim Tales. I'll email you a question about that.

Cheers

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Wulf, I'm glad to hear that work is progressing well on Grim Tales. I'll email you a question about that.

I look forward to it... I was very disappointed that the traffic on the playtest list fell off... It's still there and still available if you guys are up for more playtesting.

Heck, at this point I have nice fluffy PDFs direct from the book I can share! (No artwork placed yet, though!)

Wulf

 

[Plane Sailing]

I look forward to it... I was very disappointed that the traffic on the playtest list fell off... It's still there and still available if you guys are up for more playtesting.

Heck, at this point I have nice fluffy PDFs direct from the book I can share! (No artwork placed yet, though!)

Well, actually that was my question - I wasn't sure whether the list had stopped action or if I'd just slipped off it. It hadn't really got to the playtesting stage at that point as we were just talking about a couple of mechanics, but if you've got some more detailed stuff to try and break (oops, I mean playtest) then I'm your man!

Cheers

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I think there is a good reason why there is no sneak attack in D20 Modern. Choose Knockout or Improved Knockout Punch if you want to take out a foe. Or just take the Burst Feat and a Submachine Gun or Assault Rifle of your choice.

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[Vigilance]

Personally, as a talent, where you are choosing sneak attack over another ability, that sneak attack is fine.

Some things to keep in mind: As a talent, your max damage is +4d6.

The only thing that makes it less appropriate possibly in Modern than D&D is the massive damage save.

Given that commandos *are trained* in quick kill techniques, I actually think that's an argument for it.

Chuck

 

[Ranger REG]

Talents, along with Allegiances, are one of the things that make Modern such a great, great design, and I try to use them whenever I can

What about Occupations? Other than the PULP HEROES conversion to d20 Modern in a past issue of Polyhedron, I've yet to see others take advantage of that rule that can be used for specific campaign or genre.