Talking Animals!
- Thread starter SHARK
- Start date
I love talking animals (in the Narnia mold), and I'm surprised by the widespread attitude that they must be childish, cartoony, etc. -- especially from a group of people playing a fantasy game!
Certainly some animal characters provide comic relief, but a talking ferret seems no worse than a comic-relief, country-squire halfling, and other animals can be quite regal: the Lord of the Eagles, the White Stag, the Wise Owl, etc.
Certainly some animal characters provide comic relief, but a talking ferret seems no worse than a comic-relief, country-squire halfling, and other animals can be quite regal: the Lord of the Eagles, the White Stag, the Wise Owl, etc.
Nebuchadnezzar
First Post
Regarding awakened (and talking) animals
Something from my homebrewed campaign-world:
The Forest of White Shadows: The Forest of White Shadows, located north of Ecliptea, is one of the most dangerous forests in Mardukia. Ever since the War of Fiends, the forest has been a sanctuary for devils and demons alike. The fiends have brought the eternal conflict between their respective races with them to the forest. The forest is now (and has been for a long time) a battleground between demons and devils. All the creatures of the forest have sided with either the demons or the devils, including a group of evil druids who call themselves the Claws of Eavyra. These druids have awakened all the animals of the forest, using them as servants and soldiers. This makes the forest as bizarre as it is dangerous. The forest has twisted the minds of the animals, rendering them insane and hateful of people from the outside (as they call any anyone not of the forest). At first the animals keep themselves hidden from visitors. They then begin to whisper amongst themselves, sharing taunts and mocking the outsiders. The birds of the forest are especially infamous for their cruelty. They poke out the eyes of weary travelers who have fallen asleep and cackle taunts so spiteful they could unnerve a demon.
Anyway, I really like the idea of talking animals, and plan to include quite a few in one of the cities in Mardukia. This city is governed by cultists of Socothbenoth (a demon prince from Armies of the Abyss with the portfolios sexual perversion, prostitution, taboos, exploration). The rulers have awakened a few animals which participate in vile sexual pursuits with the innhabitants of the city. Once every week there is a "Festival of Ecstacy" in the city, where people commit horrible sexual atrocities against each other. Also, there are caverns in a mountain, which stand directly next to the city, where people come to experience the true nature of Nothingness and spiritual emptiness. This is part of the twisted game by the cult to ultimately both tantalize and torment the city's innhabitants.
Something from my homebrewed campaign-world:
The Forest of White Shadows: The Forest of White Shadows, located north of Ecliptea, is one of the most dangerous forests in Mardukia. Ever since the War of Fiends, the forest has been a sanctuary for devils and demons alike. The fiends have brought the eternal conflict between their respective races with them to the forest. The forest is now (and has been for a long time) a battleground between demons and devils. All the creatures of the forest have sided with either the demons or the devils, including a group of evil druids who call themselves the Claws of Eavyra. These druids have awakened all the animals of the forest, using them as servants and soldiers. This makes the forest as bizarre as it is dangerous. The forest has twisted the minds of the animals, rendering them insane and hateful of people from the outside (as they call any anyone not of the forest). At first the animals keep themselves hidden from visitors. They then begin to whisper amongst themselves, sharing taunts and mocking the outsiders. The birds of the forest are especially infamous for their cruelty. They poke out the eyes of weary travelers who have fallen asleep and cackle taunts so spiteful they could unnerve a demon.
Anyway, I really like the idea of talking animals, and plan to include quite a few in one of the cities in Mardukia. This city is governed by cultists of Socothbenoth (a demon prince from Armies of the Abyss with the portfolios sexual perversion, prostitution, taboos, exploration). The rulers have awakened a few animals which participate in vile sexual pursuits with the innhabitants of the city. Once every week there is a "Festival of Ecstacy" in the city, where people commit horrible sexual atrocities against each other. Also, there are caverns in a mountain, which stand directly next to the city, where people come to experience the true nature of Nothingness and spiritual emptiness. This is part of the twisted game by the cult to ultimately both tantalize and torment the city's innhabitants.
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kibbitz said:
you forgot
(iii) It's smarter. Lack of appropriate vocal apparatus isn't the only reason animals don't talk. Having language skills also says somthing about their mentation. If it can say it, it can think it. Your average housecat doesn't make plans weeks in advance. A housecat that can talk about such plans can also concieve of making a plan. If it can talk about numbers, it can count. Simply put, an animal that can talk a human language is capable of thinking in the human style.
arwink
Clockwork Golem
You need to think about the reference to a speak with humans spell effect.
Animals, in DnD terms, are obviously reguarded to have some kind of thought process and communication system built in, otherwise a spell like Speak with Animals isn't really going to work and gnomes wouldn' be able to chat with the burrowing friends.
Does the Speak with Animals let the animal suddenly speak like a human, or does it change the human enough that he can speak in the style of an animal? Is there a shift in the creatures intelligence because of the spell?
When you work backwards from that, adding in the potential to have a speaking animal that doesn't need to think on a human level, the talking animal option becomes kind of interesting. I think that's what kibbitz was aiming for.
Animals, in DnD terms, are obviously reguarded to have some kind of thought process and communication system built in, otherwise a spell like Speak with Animals isn't really going to work and gnomes wouldn' be able to chat with the burrowing friends.
Does the Speak with Animals let the animal suddenly speak like a human, or does it change the human enough that he can speak in the style of an animal? Is there a shift in the creatures intelligence because of the spell?
When you work backwards from that, adding in the potential to have a speaking animal that doesn't need to think on a human level, the talking animal option becomes kind of interesting. I think that's what kibbitz was aiming for.
Jeremy Ackerman-Yost
Explorer
Japanese myths and legends are a great source for this. They have a lot of talking animals. And they usually have a variety of magical powers as well (mostly illusions and shapechanging). And they are rarely "cutesy."
Foxes in particular are crafty and often use illusions to lure people astray. A house infested with foxes is a dangerous thing. Turtles and fishes often reward those who help them in surprising ways. Their animals have a lot in common with fey races from the Western tradition.
They're fun reads, too
Foxes in particular are crafty and often use illusions to lure people astray. A house infested with foxes is a dangerous thing. Turtles and fishes often reward those who help them in surprising ways. Their animals have a lot in common with fey races from the Western tradition.
They're fun reads, too
AuroraGyps
First Post
Totally interesting subject.
I agree with this. It's like thinking that animals have a language center in the brain that just isn't used the way a "human's" is. Once the animal gains the ability to speak, that center, and others that would be associated with it, would develop over time thus making it a smarter animal than it's regular relatives. I mean, animals have their own "languages" and their being able to speak is just building on what is already there and making them grow.
I happen to love the whole idea of animal communication. If something is on about Koko the gorilla, I watch... she is so amazing. And I've seen things on parrots about their talking and learning skills and other animals.
As for talking animals not being cute, I read the Indigo series by Louise Cooper and in it is a female wolf that can speak. She was just born that way and because of that difference, she's shunned and turned out of her pack. She was a great character and not cute.
I agree with this. It's like thinking that animals have a language center in the brain that just isn't used the way a "human's" is. Once the animal gains the ability to speak, that center, and others that would be associated with it, would develop over time thus making it a smarter animal than it's regular relatives. I mean, animals have their own "languages" and their being able to speak is just building on what is already there and making them grow.
I happen to love the whole idea of animal communication. If something is on about Koko the gorilla, I watch... she is so amazing. And I've seen things on parrots about their talking and learning skills and other animals.
As for talking animals not being cute, I read the Indigo series by Louise Cooper and in it is a female wolf that can speak. She was just born that way and because of that difference, she's shunned and turned out of her pack. She was a great character and not cute.
Pbartender
First Post
Two things...
First, consider talking animals in the style of the "gods" in Princess Mononoke... Awakened Dire Animals with the Celestial or Fiendish Templates.
Second, have you ever considered giving an Awakened Animal Druid levels, so that she can Awaken other Animals?
First, consider talking animals in the style of the "gods" in Princess Mononoke... Awakened Dire Animals with the Celestial or Fiendish Templates.
Second, have you ever considered giving an Awakened Animal Druid levels, so that she can Awaken other Animals?
Arwink, exactly what I meant 
Read a lot of Chinese and Japanese folktales, depending on the story and assuming no "Aesop's Fables"-y stories, they could be reincarnations or Awakened. The reincarnation part depends on which set of folktales you're reading because it ties into the idea of being reincarnated as animals because of low karma, or something similar to that. FYI
As for talking animals being intelligent by default, I consider animals being able to Speak with Humans similar to us mastering another language. Intelligence comes from species, and while applying magic to Awaken it will increase its intelligence, merely gifting it with speech will not.
Pbartender, hmm... I think that the "gods" in Mononoke Hime might be better represented by the Paragon template (OK, I've not seen the template, but the idea as per the description from what I remember of it fits).
Also, I'm not big on Awakening. The idea is wonderful, but I can't envision control of this RP-wise. As you said, Awaken an animal, train it such that it gains Druid levels, then let it Awaken a few others. Pyramid it and it gets awkward. Then again, nothing's perfect, I guess. Offspring remain natural, and gaining enough druid levels to go around doing pyramid Awakenings isn't easy. Plus the Awakened animal won't necessary follow along with Druid training anyway.
Still, very interesting thoughts there... I'm thinking of a scenario: Awakened wolf leading pack, preying on livestock, PCs called in... Oh darn, Neverwinter Nights... forget I said anything
Read a lot of Chinese and Japanese folktales, depending on the story and assuming no "Aesop's Fables"-y stories, they could be reincarnations or Awakened. The reincarnation part depends on which set of folktales you're reading because it ties into the idea of being reincarnated as animals because of low karma, or something similar to that. FYI
As for talking animals being intelligent by default, I consider animals being able to Speak with Humans similar to us mastering another language. Intelligence comes from species, and while applying magic to Awaken it will increase its intelligence, merely gifting it with speech will not.
Pbartender, hmm... I think that the "gods" in Mononoke Hime might be better represented by the Paragon template (OK, I've not seen the template, but the idea as per the description from what I remember of it fits).
Also, I'm not big on Awakening. The idea is wonderful, but I can't envision control of this RP-wise. As you said, Awaken an animal, train it such that it gains Druid levels, then let it Awaken a few others. Pyramid it and it gets awkward. Then again, nothing's perfect, I guess. Offspring remain natural, and gaining enough druid levels to go around doing pyramid Awakenings isn't easy. Plus the Awakened animal won't necessary follow along with Druid training anyway.
Still, very interesting thoughts there... I'm thinking of a scenario: Awakened wolf leading pack, preying on livestock, PCs called in... Oh darn, Neverwinter Nights... forget I said anything
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