TangleWING bag???

[Bagpuss]

No, it doesn't. You just make it clear at the moment- that it is a cool idea, and you (the dm) will allow it to work this time, but it will not work in the future.

Why if it works one time will it suddenly stop working in the future?

Besides- as word gets out about it, and if there are that many dragons in a campeign to worry about this tactic becoming regular, you just have them go fry the sources of the bags and have tactics against it.

How exactly would word get around to the dragon community? From the dead dragon that the party killed with the Tanglefoot bag? Or will the party send them a letter? Or perhaps some witness to the dragonslaying might happen mention it just before the next dragon eats him?

Oh no. Please no. Don't have the Badd Boys be mad at me.. oh, how will I sleep tonight?



FD

Don't you diss those Badd Boys (and girls) they can be pretty scary when they have a hissy fit.

 

[Furn_Darkside]

Furn, I meant no offense by that comment. It just struck me that having Dragons hunt down the source for Tanglefoot Bags is not something that should ever concern players. It doesn't seem exactly world-shattering, except possibly for the lives lost, if any.

I see two reasons why it would impact them:

1) The obvious - no more immediate source of tanglefoot bags
2) The better - it shows there are consequences for their actions in the world.

The latter is one of the best way to keep the players excited- they know that they are important beyond 'saving the world'. They are a part of the world.

FD

 

[Furn_Darkside]

Why if it works one time will it suddenly stop working in the future?

Dramatic license. It was allowed to work once because it was in the moment and the players were excited.

I remember watching an episode of Xena (not something I did regularly), but she was about to take on some giant. Her sidekick got excited- since they had beaten a giant before- they would just use the same tactic. Xena had some comment about wanting to keep things exciting- and she spent the rest of the episode coming up with some other odd way to beat the giant.

Not the best of examples, but it shows my point. The audiance does not want to see the same thing over and over- neither should the players or dm.

How exactly would word get around to the dragon community? From the dead dragon that the party killed with the Tanglefoot bag? Or will the party send them a letter? Or perhaps some witness to the dragonslaying might happen mention it just before the next dragon eats him?

I know it has been a while since I have read my MM, but I could have swore dragons were magical creatures. They were also rather intelligent, and - gee - might have friend or family dragons that wondered why Daddy did not come home last night.

I know you are being silly, but unless dragons are a dime-a-dozen, then do you think the death of one would go unnoted?
Especially by their own kind?

FD

 

[Forrester]

I'm surprised some munchkin rules monkey hasn't pointed out that there's no size limitation for Tanglefoot bags doing what they do -- that is, cut movement by half (even with a save).

You did the right thing. It's a freaking DRAGON. Even if it was "only" of Large size.

Assuming it made its saving throw (which you said it did), I would say that the flying falters -- he IS slowed for a round or three -- but he keeps going. Maybe he has to drop down a little while he's flying.

Crashing to the ground, though, on a SUCCESSFUL save? No.

Reminds me of the old story back in 1E about some guy killing Thor with a Push spell.

Just because PCs use low-powered items or spells creatively doesn't mean that their effects get to be game-breaking.

 

[ninthcouncil]

I'd agree that allowing such a minor thing as a Tanglefoot bag to take down a dragon, even on a nat 20, is a dangerous precedent, but it would have been possible to apply a more limited effect - knocking the beast's (?)airborne maneuverability rating* down a couple of categories for instance. In such circumstances, the dragon might have lurched away into the blue yonder till it could clean the stuff off..... then it will come back, feelin' ornery

* can't remember what this game mechanic is actually called, not having the books to hand - but you know what I mean

 

[Umbran]

How would I have ruled on it?

Trying to hit a specific part of a creature is a "called shot", which the core rules don't allow. The item's function as described in the rules already includes the fact that you're trying to use it in the best of all possible manners. Unless the item specifically describes a different behavior on a "critical hit", then no special bonus applies on a roll of 20.

So, the dragon made his save - that's the end of it.

 

[Hakkenshi]

I did lower its speed by a certain amount (can't remember exactly how much), but I don't remember how much. I just didn't see such a small thing impact a Dragon. I mean, it's a friggin' Dragon

 

[Vargo]

Simple solution: Reduce the "airborne maneuverability" of the dragon by one class. This represents it struggling to remain in control - I mean, come on, no tanglefoot bag is going to COMPLETELY wipe out the flying capability of something that big, but it might slow it down a bit.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Easy solution. The wing joint freezes up for a bit forcing the dragon to glide. After 2 or 3 rounds the dragon flexs his wings hard enough to tear the tanglefoot material loose and is able to fly normally.

Doing it this way lets your player accomplish something with his innovative action and grants the party a small break without hurting the dragon at all.

 

[radferth]

called shots?

I believe that this whole thread should be seen as a cautionary tale about the danger of called shots. Within the context of the game, they always seem to degenerate into some impossible act that would result in instant death or hideous damage being given a 5% chance to sucede. If you must have called shots, just allow players to narate the gruesome affects of any crits they inflict (maybe give an additional +1 damage for paticularly brutal naration if y'all are into that sort of thing).