Targetting Area Spells

[Fauxargent]

I'll make a spellcaster roll a Spellcraft check if there's a particular reason why placing the spell is more difficult than usual (e.g. a large number of people between the caster and the target point).

Yes, that's what we do also (DC15+SL). We only use it if the caster is trying for pinpoint accuracy (eg hit the opponents but miss the front rank of the party with a fireball). Before rolling he decides whether to risk hitting his own party or playing safe (and risking missing the enemy front rank.)

 

[Jeff Wilder]

I'll make a spellcaster roll a Spellcraft check if there's a particular reason why placing the spell is more difficult than usual (e.g. a large number of people between the caster and the target point).

That's what we used to do, but we found that (1) it added more time to an already time-consuming process, (2) any fair roll for a 5th-level caster was trivial for a 10th-level caster, and (3) there wasn't really a skill that fit the "overcome combat chaos" feel we were going for.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Except that you are allowing a PC to surgically strike with a fireball... which his character really only has 2ish seconds to decide on... while he's digging out the dung... etc. But hey... YMMV.

I tend to chalk this up to having an 18+ intelligence. Spacial relationships and calculations come more easily to a person, the higher their Int. With an 18+ Int, I figure it's fairly believable that the wizard could envision a 3D sphere of Fireball proportions, put it where he wants it, and aim at the center.

Of course, this creates problems with sorcerers doing the same thing, but I like to ignore that little inconsistancy.

Wilder_jw's house rule is very nice. I'd use it, if I really thought there was a problem worth fixing in the first place.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Is there really a balance problem with placing area spells exactly where the character wants, or is this a hindering of their intended abilities for flavor reasons? I'm generally against changing the rules to make the system more believable.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

The player's get to put their spells exactly where they want, so long as the monsters get to put their spells exactly where they want.

It all balances out in the end!

 

[Chimera]

Back when 3.0 was new, I was GMing a game using a large white board and small minis, at a scale of 10' per inch. No squares, no lines. Open placement.

I'd use a circle of the proper size and ask the player to put it where he was casting (4" cardboard drink coasters worked great for fireballs). If he got too picky or took too long trying to "exact place" it, I would ask him to lift it up 6-8" and drop it. Where it landed was where it hit. Any friendly minis it hit in the process were also hit, regardless of whether or not they were inside the final placement.

The player in question got a lot less picky and a lot speedier about his shot placement after a couple of times of that!

 

[shilsen]

I tend to chalk this up to having an 18+ intelligence. Spacial relationships and calculations come more easily to a person, the higher their Int. With an 18+ Int, I figure it's fairly believable that the wizard could envision a 3D sphere of Fireball proportions, put it where he wants it, and aim at the center.

Of course, this creates problems with sorcerers doing the same thing, but I like to ignore that little inconsistancy.

I tend to chalk it up to magic. Solves the sorcerer problem too

Wilder_jw's house rule is very nice. I'd use it, if I really thought there was a problem worth fixing in the first place.

Same here, but I don't, for the reason Olgar Shiverstone mentioned above.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Is there really a balance problem with placing area spells exactly where the character wants, or is this a hindering of their intended abilities for flavor reasons? I'm generally against changing the rules to make the system more believable.

In our game, it's not a balance issue. It's closer to a flavor issue, I suppose; I really don't think that spellcasters should be able to be so precise. The world -- at least, most of them -- is not marked out in a five-foot grid.

Note, BTW, that my house rule (and similar house rules) are only one way the precision ability of spellcasters might be hindered. For example, in a group that has a strict -- and fairly short -- time-limit on actions, a spellcaster may have to be deliberately imprecise to avoid a serious mistake. This kind of "hindrance" is also imbalanced; such groups rarely hold the DM's NPCs to the same time limit as the players. (God forbid.) This isn't a diss on time-limit groups, BTW; I only wish I could get my group to use one.

Most of the benefit of our house rule is that it's fun, even for the spellcaster in question. (Come on now, who really doesn't think it's fun to blow up a party member or two by accident? If you said, "Me," I'm callin' you a liar.)

 

[Vrecknidj]

Here's my problem with the whole system. Let's say a wizard has a range of 800 feet with his fireball. In poor lighting conditions, that's a -80 on his Spot check. Let's assume a human wizard, at sunset, in the heat of battle. If he's high up, like on a cliff, then it's no problem; he's just pointing to a location and having the fireball (or whatever) go off there. But if the wizard is trying to look through or over a crowd of bodies, there's no way he can even see that far, let alone know what's there to target.

It seems to me that in many circumstances, it would be fair to require a Spot check for the wizard to even know what's there to target. And, maybe, the DM should roll this and then tell the wizard what he sees--after all, in some circumstances there could be a mistake (I can't necessarily tell friend from foe at 800 feet), and then the wizard gets to fry his allies.

Dave

 

[rhammer2]

AoE Spell Placement

I use a simple rule for AoE spells, if the monster is in the AoE, so is any PC's engaged with it in melee. It simplifies and speeds up the process, it isn't possible to place a spell, such as Fireball to just hit the monster.

I must confess that my group and I have been playing 3.x since it came out, but we are still hazy on how you target Area of Effect spells (fireball, darkness, flamestrike, etc).

In our games (as is common in most games, I would assume), the players of spellcasters spend a lot of time trying to target their spells, so as to get as many bad guys as possible, without getting any of the player characters.

Do you just use the rules for splash weapons? The SRD says this about them...


I suppose that works, but is there some specific rule that I am missing?