Originally posted by Lashius:
A little while ago a friend of mine who was new to D&D asked how feat selection could affect the overall CR rating of a creature. This of course led to an explanation on the abstract (and sometimes seemingly random) nature of creature CR and how over the course of 3.5’s evolution the understanding and implementation of CR changed with earlier creatures flaunting selections like toughness with later monsters being more “fine tuned” if you will, with practical combat feats. With the addition of various splat books older CRs can easily be updated to still be relevant against “newer” tactics, and with that a classic monster got an overhaul-
-And so; I give you the Tarrasque 2.0.
Update: Tarrasque 2.1 can be found here later in the thread.(x)
Update: Meet the Tarrasque of Legecy!(x)
Show
[sblock] Tarrasque
The tarrasque is 70 feet long and 50 feet tall, and it weighs about 130 tons.
The tarrasque cannot speak.
Combat
The tarrasque attacks with its claws, teeth, horns, and tail. The tarrasque’s natural weapons are treated as epic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction (treat the tarrasque’s weapons as having a +6 enhancement bonus for the purpose of determining whether it can sunder a weapon or not, the tarrasque generally only attempts to sunder weapons that bypass it’s damage reduction).
Augmented Critical (Ex)
The tarrasque’s bite threatens a critical hit on a natural attack roll of 18-20, dealing triple damage on a successful critical hit.
Frightful Presence (Su)
The tarrasque can inspire terror by charging or attacking. Affected creatures must succeed on a DC 36 Will save or become shaken, remaining in that condition as long as they remain with 60 feet of the tarrasque. The save DC is Charisma-based.
Improved Grab (Ex)
To use this ability, the tarrasque must hit a Huge or smaller opponent with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can try to swallow the foe the following round.
Rush (Ex)
Once per minute, the normally slow-moving tarrasque can move at a speed of 150 feet.
Swallow Whole (Ex)
The tarrasque can try to swallow a grabbed opponent of Huge or smaller size by making a successful grapple check. Once inside, the opponent takes 2d8+8 points of crushing damage plus 2d8+6 points of acid damage per round from the tarrasque’s digestive juices. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by dealing 50 points of damage to the tarrasque’s digestive tract (AC 25). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out. The tarrasque’s gullet can hold 2 Huge, 8 Large, 32 Medium, 128 Small, or 512 Tiny or smaller creatures.
Carapace (Ex)
The tarrasque’s armorlike carapace is exceptionally tough and highly reflective, deflecting all rays, lines, cones, and even magic missile spells. There is a 30% chance of reflecting any such effect back at the caster; otherwise, it is merely negated. Check for reflection before rolling to overcome the creature’s spell resistance.
Regeneration (Ex)
No form of attack deals lethal damage to the tarrasque. The tarrasque regenerates even if it fails a saving throw against a disintegrate spell or a death effect. If the tarrasque fails its save against a spell or effect that would kill it instantly (such as those mentioned above), the spell or effect instead deals nonlethal damage equal to the creature’s full normal hit points +10 (or 850 hp). The tarrasque is immune to effects that produce incurable or bleeding wounds, such as mummy rot, a sword with the wounding special ability, or a clay golem’s cursed wound ability.
The tarrasque can be slain only by raising its nonlethal damage total to its full normal hit points +10 (or 850 hit points) and using a wish or miracle spell to keep it dead.
If the tarrasque loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 1d6 minutes (the detached piece dies and decays normally). The creature can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it to the stump.
Skills
The tarrasque has a +8 racial bonus on Listen and Spot checks.
[/sblock]
Originally posted by Tempest_Stormwind:
...Damn. That's terrifying. With one caveat - it's still foiled by most flying creatures, as it seems to only have rock throwing to use against them. (Really, the only groundborne creature without true ranged attacks that bothers flyers, to my knowledge, is Elder Evils' Golothoma, which can attack anything within 600 feet with "melee" attacks even though it's not actually reaching out to touch them.) Listing its Jump modifier (including how it changes when using Rush) would probably help with this a bit.
Fling Enemy is a nice touch though, and I like Defensive Sweep in this case (particularly because the Big T isn't known to be terribly mobile except on the charge, which usually only happens while rushing).
I'm curious if Int 3 is "enough" to properly use Shock Trooper and Combat Brute together, or if it would just go all-out all the time.
If you want a weird direction to take this, see the Kung-Fu Witchcraft link in my signature. Int 3 is sufficient to qualify for class levels. Quoting RT, "because that's what the Tarrasque needs, Tornado Throw."
Originally posted by Lashius:
The idea for fling enemy was rather simple; if it doesn’t like the taste of something, it “spits” it back out. Defensive sweep came out of another behavioral habit I envisioned for the creature. If something was slow enough to linger in range of its teeth, it would get snapped up with a nice crunch, subsequently next round it either gets swallowed or spat out via fling enemy.
As for the fun of shoving people into one another with shock trooper and follow up attacks with combat brute, think of it like a cat playing with its food, or perhaps the chap likes to stack targets up to make a people sandwich, and then starts a rousing game of handball?
I can see it now, the iconic hermit atop the mountain ready to give their martial arts advice to a worthy pilgrim; and that hermit is the tarrasque—bring plenty of beef jerky.
Originally posted by Slagger_the_Chuul:
I did something somewhat similar in the past, but all I did was reallocate its superfluous Toughness feats, rather than a more extensive overhaul. I did also give it the Rock Hurling/Improved Rock Hurling/Fling Ally sequence as a ranged option, but my other three picks were Improved Toughness (to completely replace the original six feats with no downside), Endurance, and Steadfast Determination.
Originally posted by Pheonix042:
This makes me wonder, what's the deadliest single class level Tarrasque could take?
Swordsage 1? (1/2 HD to initiator level...)
Then he could pick up maybe a teleporting manuever, Searing charge (maybe leaping flame is the teleporting manuever...), and possible some defensive manuevers, or something. Oh, and maybe blood in the water?
Or he could go for Barbarian 1, pick up pounce and whirling frenzy. But that doesn't help with flying things... And the bonuses from whirling frenzy aren't as great when you're already Tarrasque.
Originally posted by Tempest_Stormwind:
Really, though, this is one of the reasons Defensive Sweep is so awesome - it's an extra attack even if you spend your whole action, say, recovering maneuvers or using Adaptive Style.
Originally posted by StevenO:
I wonder if it shouldn't keep Blind Fighting just because of how effective Concealment can be against even massive attack bonuses.
Originally posted by piggyknowles:
If going after fliers is necessary, I see no reason why the tarrasque couldn't pick up Balance on the Sky via feats.
Originally posted by Lashius:
Originally posted by Maat_Mons:
Good thinking on martial stance (balance on the sky). It does take up four feats, but you also get three shadow hand maneuvers.
Epic speed would be nice, so he can catch up to people playing keep away more than once per minute.
Deformity (madness) is probably essential. It gives immunity to mind-affecting effects. Without that, a dominate monster spell not only defeats him, but turns him into a major asset for the players.
Originally posted by Slagger_the_Chuul:
It's hard to pick one over the other, though; it can already tank or ignore a lot of Fortitude-typical effects, so Deformity (madness) is attractive even if Steadfast Determination offers something for both sides.
Originally posted by Tempest_Stormwind:
Does anyone else remember the phrenic tarrasque? That thing's a nightmare.
Originally posted by Pheonix042:
Oh my god, I'm scared. I read phrenic (it wasn't long), and I'd like to know what you'd pin the CR at for a phrenic Tarrasque with optimized feats and a level of swordsage and a level of barbarian, both (pounce and rage, I think, instead of whirling frenzy. Steadfast determination, so raging spikes his will by +4 instead of +2).
I'm thinking searing charge would be good, but he'd have to spend a feat to both qualify and pick up searing charge and tornado throw. Of course, he ALSO gets all the benefits of the other 5 setting sun manuevers he grabbed, and a desert wind too, one of which he can use once per encounter and doesn't count against manuevers readied.
Inferno blade has no prerequisites... So that's his prerequisite for searing charge, I think. It's a boost that adds 3d6+25 fire damage to every attack he makes in a round. With a pounce, searing charge, rush combo, that's something like 230 extra fire damage, if he hits with every attack.
I don't know what manuevers I'd pick from setting sun, but the stance should be from that discipline so that he only needs five manuevers known from setting sun, one of which he needs to pick up with a feat (before he becomes a swordsage, so therefore he can use it only once per encounter, but doesn't use up a manuever readied slot).
Idk how deadly this is for those levels, because I've never much played at those levels. But it looks pretty deadly to me...
Originally posted by Maat_Mons:
I just looked at the benefits of shape soulmeld (planar ward). It gives immunity to charm, compulsion, and possession. It's not full mind-affecting immunity, but it mostly only leaves out mind reading. I doubt there's any tactical advantage to knowing what the tarrasque is thinking anyway. I take back the deformity (madness) suggestion. This is a better choice.
Another oversight in the tarrasque's immunities is ability drain. It's immune to ability damage and energy drain, but not ability drain. Shape soulmeld (pauldrons of health) and open lesser chakra (shoulders) can take care of that though.
Originally posted by Lashius:
Though it got me thinking on applicable templates and void mind came to…er…mind. Putting that on Big-T gives him even more immunities (mind effecting effects amongst them) and not only that, but grants another attack that also benefits from improved grab and can maintain a grapple independent of the Tarrasque’s actions. I think the most terrifying thing about this template is that there would be an actual chance it could be inflicted on the Tarrasque in a game through a mindflayer plot.
Originally posted by Andarious-Rosethorn:
Oh god, and three Mindflayers that were powerful enough to Voidmind The Tarrasque? That's just scary.
Originally posted by aelryinth:
Ah, Pierce Magical Concealment will deal with all forms of concealment, except maybe a Smoke Stick...and for that he should have an area attack, right? He'd make a good hulking hurler.
==Aelryinth
Originally posted by Slagger_the_Chuul:
I had a build where I stapled an excessive number of templates onto both parts of an entomanothrope, and the size limit was one of the reasons to have the Voidmind template on the Huge incarnate construct human statue instead of the Gargantuan megapede (the more immediately obvious reason being that the megapede is a vermin).
Originally posted by Lashius:
Originally posted by Andarious-Rosethorn:
Dungeonbred Only takes it down 1 category... any other ways to take it down one more?
Originally posted by Maat_Mons:
There's a fluff problem for the voidmind tarrasque. The voidmind template is predicated on having most of the brain removed. The tarrasque's regeneration causes the brain (or anything else) to regrow in 1d6 minutes.
Originally posted by Andarious-Rosethorn:
Can it regenerate if there's goup in the way already? Either way still moot until we have a way to downsize BigT by 2 sizes (which would be amazing on so many levels as Huge monsters can actually fight in places other than a big open field).
Originally posted by Lashius:
I think I may have just come across a rather amazing discovery because of this.
The spell Minute Form off of the wujen class list came to mind since it can actual downgrade a subjects size to a minimum of tiny, the downside it is a personal spell. However, an unlikely class has the ability to aim a personal spell at another target.
Spell Sword.
The Spell Swords channel spell ability has no limit on target, area of effect, range, or spell level that you can channel into your weapon, so in theory you could actually put a personal spell into a blade and hit a subject with it, in this case, the Tarrasque with Minute Form. It only lasts a minute, but the template doesn’t give a time frame on how long it takes to apply the template, so arguably you could forcibly shrink the Tarrasque (the spell offers no save or spell resistance, and big-t isn’t immune to transmutation effects) apply the template, and then have a full sized Tarrasque void mind after all is said and done.
The only hang up is you would need a wujen 13/ spell sword 4 build (or anything that gave 13 levels of wujen caster levels and 4 levels of spell sword) in order to pull it off and it would be arguable if the
template would still apply after the size change wore off.
That all said, I think I may have found a new respect for spell swords channel spell ability considering you could smack an antimagic field on an enemy caster or various other shenanigans (making the party’s lock down crusader tiny sized for example).
EDIT: I forgot the weapons and armor pre-req for spell sword, so you would either need one level of fighter ontop of that build, or swap out a level of wujen for dragon slayer. either way, your probably looking at some kind of gish.
Originally posted by Tempest_Stormwind:
The counterargument is that it also doesn't change the target of the spell, such that "Target: You" spells successfully cast on things that are not You will fail just as assuredly as casting charm person on a dog. You can argue it, but that still means arguing.
The usual way to throw personal spells at enemies is using Spellguard of Silverymoon, (PGtF) and there's no "in theory" about it - that's exactly what it does (cast personal spells on touched creatures - ally or not - so long as the spell is "defensive", defined as one that improves AC, increases saves, or increases HP, two of which a size decrease would do).
Mind you, this trick is usually used with Transcend Mortality (Wu Jen 9), which creates a no-save Death By Awesome effect. (Normally I reserve "death by awesome" to describe what happens if you park yourself on the positive energy plane for a while, but here it works.) But Minute Form is another fun one.
Originally posted by Lashius:
On the other hand, channel spell explicitly states that the spell channeled targets the foe you hit with the strike; “The channeled spell affects the next target that the spell sword successfully attacks with his weapon (saving throws and spell resistance still apply). Even if the spell normally affects an area or is a ray, it affects only the target”, so I don’t see it being debatable on if it would shrink the Tarrasque, but rather "would the template still apply since it is a temporary size change"?
Originally posted by Slagger_the_Chuul:
In comparison, you might be able to do the feat adjustment that serves as the basis for this thread with psychic reformation on the vanilla tarrasque (mind flayers are psionically inclined, after all), and if they're trying to turn the tarrasque into an illithid weapon against the surface, it would make sense to give its combat capabilities a mental overhaul.
That could form the basis of another whole discussion on its own, but if you were to ask "Is minute form a defensive spell?" without applying a particular context, I'd have to say no, since there isn't anything inherently defensive about the basic effect. If, for example you're defending against regular attacks with AC, decreasing size improves your defense, but if you're trying to defend against grappling, the size decrease makes you more vulnerable. The defensive advantage comes from matching the size change with the right situation, not directly from the spell, so minute form isn't a defensive spell any more than giant form, even though both spells can be used to improve your chances of defending in the right circumstances.
Originally posted by Lashius:
Did a few alterations based on suggestions. Here is Tarrasque 2.1 (I’ll link to the updated version in my original post).
Also for the fun of it, I dug up this artical since it seemed relivant.
Show
[sblock] Tarrasque
The tarrasque is 70 feet long and 50 feet tall, and it weighs about 130 tons.
The tarrasque cannot speak.
Combat
The tarrasque attacks with its claws, teeth, horns, and tail.
The tarrasque’s natural weapons are treated as epic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction (treat the tarrasque’s weapons as having a +6 enhancement bonus for the purpose of determining whether it can sunder a weapon or not, the tarrasque generally only attempts to sunder weapons that bypass it’s damage reduction).
Augmented Critical (Ex)
The tarrasque’s bite threatens a critical hit on a natural attack roll of 18-20, dealing triple damage on a successful critical hit.
Frightful Presence (Su)
The tarrasque can inspire terror by charging or attacking. Affected creatures must succeed on a DC 36 Will save or become shaken, remaining in that condition as long as they remain with 60 feet of the tarrasque. The save DC is Charisma-based.
Improved Grab (Ex)
To use this ability, the tarrasque must hit a Huge or smaller opponent with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can try to swallow the foe the following round.
Rush (Ex)
Once per minute, the normally slow-moving tarrasque can move at a speed of 150 feet.
Swallow Whole (Ex)
The tarrasque can try to swallow a grabbed opponent of Huge or smaller size by making a successful grapple check. Once inside, the opponent takes 2d8+8 points of crushing damage plus 2d8+6 points of acid damage per round from the tarrasque’s digestive juices. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by dealing 50 points of damage to the tarrasque’s digestive tract (AC 25). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out. The tarrasque’s gullet can hold 2 Huge, 8 Large, 32 Medium, 128 Small, or 512 Tiny or smaller creatures.
Carapace (Ex)
The tarrasque’s armorlike carapace is exceptionally tough and highly reflective, deflecting all rays, lines, cones, and even magic missile spells. There is a 30% chance of reflecting any such effect back at the caster; otherwise, it is merely negated. Check for reflection before rolling to overcome the creature’s spell resistance.
Regeneration (Ex)
No form of attack deals lethal damage to the tarrasque. The tarrasque regenerates even if it fails a saving throw against a disintegrate spell or a death effect. If the tarrasque fails its save against a spell or effect that would kill it instantly (such as those mentioned above), the spell or effect instead deals nonlethal damage equal to the creature’s full normal hit points +10 (or 850 hp). The tarrasque is immune to effects that produce incurable or bleeding wounds, such as mummy rot, a sword with the wounding special ability, or a clay golem’s cursed wound ability.
The tarrasque can be slain only by raising its nonlethal damage total to its full normal hit points +10 (or 850 hit points) and using a wish or miracle spell to keep it dead.
If the tarrasque loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 1d6 minutes (the detached piece dies and decays normally). The creature can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it to the stump.
Skills
The tarrasque has a +8 racial bonus on Listen and Spot checks.
[/sblock]
Originally posted by Tempest_Stormwind:
"I'd like to call this version Godzilla, but any breath weapon it could have according to the rules is pretty short-range compared to the 100-foot radioactive fire breath that the monster used in the movies. But when the tarrasque of legend is standing over Tokyo, I'll bet your players won't quibble much about the length of its breath weapon."
Dragon Magic and Races of the Dragon, with their fun little breath-weapon-related mechanics, didn't come out until the year after this article (and the templated tarrasque is using a cone breath weapon, when it could shape it into a longer-range line and still be more in line with Godzilla). It might be possible to actually hit 100 feet without dramatically altering the template. Still wouldn't be able to do everything Godzilla did with the breath (from the tragic - i.e. the clinic scenes with Geiger counters in Gojira - or the comic - but we will never speak of Godzilla Vs Hedorah ever again), but that's probably for the best.
"Imagine a tarrasque with five heads! Not only would it have five times the biting power, but it could also bring five fiery breath weapons to bear on its opponents! I first tinkered with a thirty-headed version (which the template does allow), but such a creature is really too nasty for its challenge rating, so I don't recommend you make one."
Challenge accepted. And then we'll kill it. Because nothing in the template actually stops the tarrasque from dying from the usual creative player-controlled methods. (Though a couple of them would go away if applied to 2.1, because of Steadfast Determination.)
Quoth Caelic: "Yeah, it's important to remember that the CO board members, in general, don't just think outside the box--we find a way to turn the box into a tactical nuclear weapon and blow up Tiamat with it."
Originally posted by Slagger_the_Chuul:
"Imagine a tarrasque with five heads! Not only would it have five times the biting power, but it could also bring five fiery breath weapons to bear on its opponents! I first tinkered with a thirty-headed version (which the template does allow), but such a creature is really too nasty for its challenge rating, so I don't recommend you make one."
He eventually followed through on the thirty-headed tarrasque.
Originally posted by Pheonix042:
...
CR 40? But it still can't fly...
It doesn't seem like it would be that hard to beat. Just ignore spell resistance and saving throw spells, and then optimize for the spells you're going to use, and them be flying.
Originally posted by Tempest_Stormwind:
The other standard, non-plane-shifting trick (a legion of allips, followed by dumping it in the ocean) also still works, but it should be simple enough to provide immunity to ability score drain (it's immune to ability damage, but not ability drain).
EDIT: Well, it looks like someone illustrated the trick.
Originally posted by Pheonix042:
the link is broken or some-such.
Also, is the Allip some kind of typo? I've always wondered about that. 1d4 wisdom DRAIN at CR 3?
Crazy.
Originally posted by Andarious-Rosethorn:
Yeah and they punish Mindsight, badly. In fact a room with several of them would suddenly render someone using Mindsight comatose.
Originally posted by Slagger_the_Chuul:
Better yet, how about making the allips telepathic? Then they could apply their madness to anything with a language that wasn't outright immune to Wisdom drain.
Originally posted by Lashius:
Hello again all. The other day I was thumbing through a copy of Weapons of Legacy and saw the Monster of Legacy template, thought of big-t once again, and decided “why not”? So, without further wait I give you the Tarrasque of Legacy.
The Fluff:
Show
[sblock] Some time ago during the Tarrasque’s last feeding cycle, a group of adventurers had the same bad idea that many before had: “hey, we should try and stop that thing once and for all”! The group composed of a warlock, a ranger, a rogue and a sword sage decided that they where up to the task.They where sadly mistaken.
When they where nearly defeated by the legendary creature the warlock managed the smartest idea of the endeavor and used a staff to cast gate, and summoned an ancient gold dragon. The dragon helped turn the tide and the Tarrasque was nearly vanquished. It was then that the rogue tried to use his last wish from a luck blade to slay the creature, however he failed to bypass the Mighty Tarrasques spell resistance, and all was lost.
Barely surviving the encounter, the Tarrasque went on to devour a field of cows (as it usual did that time of the year, much to the dismay of the adventurers ghosts who learned the power of research in hindsight) and went back to its lair to fall into a deep slumber. When the Tarrasque awoke for its next feeding it gained the attention of a Balor who had been trapped on the material plain, and who thought to try and dominate it and perhaps bring it back to the abyss as a trophy for Orcus.
Much to the Balor’s surprise, the Tarrasque was now immune to the effects of mind control, and he promptly ate his would be master. Now possessed of strange powers, the Tarrasque seems to be more active, and is somehow showing up on other plains, and appearing in the middle of towns with next to no warning, and vanishing just as suddenly with nothing but destruction left behind as evidence of its rampage.
Those with the knowhow fear that the legendary beast formed a legacy in its near defeat so many months ago, and that now it is even more powerful than before.
One can only hope that they are wrong.
[/sblock]
The Stats:
Show
[sblock] Tarrasque of Legacy
The tarrasque is 70 feet long and 50 feet tall, and it weighs about 130 tons.
The tarrasque cannot speak.
Combat
The tarrasque attacks with its claws, teeth, horns, and tail.
The tarrasque’s natural weapons are treated as epic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction (treat the tarrasque’s weapons as having a +6 enhancement bonus for the purpose of determining whether it can sunder a weapon or not, the tarrasque generally only attempts to sunder weapons that bypass it’s damage reduction).
Ability Enhancement +4
The tarrasque benefits from a +4 enhancement bonus to constitution.
Augmented Critical (Ex)
The tarrasque’s bite threatens a critical hit on a natural attack roll of 18-20, dealing triple damage on a successful critical hit.
Feather Falling
(Su)
The tarrasque immediately gains the benefit of a Feather Fall spell if it falls more than 5 feet in a round.
Fly (Su)
Once per day the tarrasque can issue a mighty roar and gain the benefits of a Fly spell for 10 rounds.
Frightful Presence (Su)
The tarrasque can inspire terror by charging or attacking. Affected creatures must succeed on a DC 36 Will save or become shaken, remaining in that condition as long as they remain with 60 feet of the tarrasque. The save DC is Charisma-based.
Deflection (Su)
The tarrasque gains a +1 Deflection bonus to AC.
Hast (Su)
Five times per day the tarrasque can stamp the ground with his feet as a swift action and gain the benefits of the Hast spell for one round.
Improved Grab (Ex)
To use this ability, the tarrasque must hit a Huge or smaller opponent with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can try to swallow the foe the following round.
Mind Blank (Su)
The tarrasque is constantly under the effects of a Mind Blank Spell.
Obscurity (Su)
The tarrasque cannot be detected remotely through the use of Scrying, Remote Viewing, or any other means of divination, as if continuously affected by the Obscure Object spell, regardless of the fact that it is in fact not an object.
Plane Shift (Sp)
Once per day the tarrasque can issue a mighty roar and gain the benefits of a Plain Shift Spell. Only willing targets may accompany the tarrasque.
Rush (Ex)
Once per minute, the normally slow-moving tarrasque can move at a speed of 150 feet.
See Invisibility (Su)
The tarrasque is constantly under the effect of a See Invisibility spell.
Speed Enhancement (Su)
The tarrasque benefits from a +10 enhancement bonus to its speed.
Swallow Whole (Ex)
The tarrasque can try to swallow a grabbed opponent of Huge or smaller size by making a successful grapple check. Once inside, the opponent takes 2d8+8 points of crushing damage plus 2d8+6 points of acid damage per round from the tarrasque’s digestive juices. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by dealing 50 points of damage to the tarrasque’s digestive tract (AC 25). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out. The tarrasque’s gullet can hold 2 Huge, 8 Large, 32 Medium, 128 Small, or 512 Tiny or smaller creatures.
Teleport (Su)
Twice per day the tarrasque may issue a mighty roar and gain the benefits of a Teleport spell.
Carapace (Ex)
The tarrasque’s armorlike carapace is exceptionally tough and highly reflective, deflecting all rays, lines, cones, and even magic missile spells. There is a 30% chance of reflecting any such effect back at the caster; otherwise, it is merely negated. Check for reflection before rolling to overcome the creature’s spell resistance.
Regeneration (Ex)
No form of attack deals lethal damage to the tarrasque. The tarrasque regenerates even if it fails a saving throw against a disintegrate spell or a death effect. If the tarrasque fails its save against a spell or effect that would kill it instantly (such as those mentioned above), the spell or effect instead deals nonlethal damage equal to the creature’s full normal hit points +10 (or 930 hp). The tarrasque is immune to effects that produce incurable or bleeding wounds, such as mummy rot, a sword with the wounding special ability, or a clay golem’s cursed wound ability.
The tarrasque can be slain only by raising its nonlethal damage total to its full normal hit points +10 (or 930 hit points) and using a wish or miracle spell to keep it dead.
If the tarrasque loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 1d6 minutes (the detached piece dies and decays normally). The creature can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it to the stump.
Skills
The tarrasque has a +8 racial bonus on Listen and Spot checks.
[/sblock]
Originally posted by Andarious-Rosethorn:
luls, you all gonna die.
A little while ago a friend of mine who was new to D&D asked how feat selection could affect the overall CR rating of a creature. This of course led to an explanation on the abstract (and sometimes seemingly random) nature of creature CR and how over the course of 3.5’s evolution the understanding and implementation of CR changed with earlier creatures flaunting selections like toughness with later monsters being more “fine tuned” if you will, with practical combat feats. With the addition of various splat books older CRs can easily be updated to still be relevant against “newer” tactics, and with that a classic monster got an overhaul-
-And so; I give you the Tarrasque 2.0.
Update: Tarrasque 2.1 can be found here later in the thread.(x)
Update: Meet the Tarrasque of Legecy!(x)
Show
[sblock] Tarrasque
| [ATT align]Size/Type:[//ATT] | Colossal Magical Beast |
| [ATT align]Hit Dice:[//ATT] | 48d10+582 (840 hp) |
| [ATT align]Initiative:[//ATT] | +7 |
| [ATT align]Speed:[//ATT] | 20 ft. (4 squares) |
| [ATT align]Armor Class:[//ATT] | 35 (-8 size, +3 Dex, +30 natural), touch 5, flat-footed 32 |
| [ATT align]Base Attack/Grapple:[//ATT] | +48/+81 |
| [ATT align]Attack:[//ATT] | Bite +57 melee (4d8+17/18-20/×3), OR, Rock+57 ranged (2d6+17) |
| [ATT align]Full Attack:[//ATT] | Bite +57 melee (4d8+17/18-20/×3) and 2 horns +52 melee (1d10+8) and 2 claws +52 melee (1d12+8) and tail slap +52 melee (3d8+8), OR, Rock+57 ranged (2d6+17) |
| [ATT align]Space/Reach:[//ATT] | 30 ft./20 ft. |
| [ATT align]Special Attacks:[//ATT] | Augmented critical, Bull Rush (+37), frightful presence, improved grab, rush, swallow whole |
| [ATT align]Special Qualities:[//ATT] | Carapace, damage reduction 15/epic, immunity to fire, poison, disease, energy drain, and ability damage, regeneration 40, scent, spell resistance 32 |
| [ATT align]Saves:[//ATT] | Fort +38, Ref +29, Will +20 |
| [ATT align]Abilities:[//ATT] | Str 45, Dex 16, Con 35, Int 3, Wis 14, Cha 14 |
| [ATT align]Skills:[//ATT] | Listen +15, Search +9, Spot +15, Survival +14 (+16 following tracks) |
| [ATT align]Feats:[//ATT] | Brutal Throw, Cleave, Combat Brute, Combat Reflexes, Defensive Sweep, Fling Enemy, Great Cleave, Hold The Line, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Initiative, Improved Rock Hurling, Improved Sunder, Iron Will, Knockback, Power Attack, Rock Hurling, Shock Trooper, Track (b) |
| [ATT align]Environment:[//ATT] | Any |
| [ATT align]Organization:[//ATT] | Solitary |
| [ATT align]Challenge Rating:[//ATT] | 20 |
| [ATT align]Treasure:[//ATT] | None |
| [ATT align]Alignment:[//ATT] | Always neutral |
| [ATT align]Advancement:[//ATT] | 49+ HD (Colossal) |
| [ATT align]Level Adjustment:[//ATT] | — |
The tarrasque cannot speak.
Combat
The tarrasque attacks with its claws, teeth, horns, and tail. The tarrasque’s natural weapons are treated as epic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction (treat the tarrasque’s weapons as having a +6 enhancement bonus for the purpose of determining whether it can sunder a weapon or not, the tarrasque generally only attempts to sunder weapons that bypass it’s damage reduction).
Augmented Critical (Ex)
The tarrasque’s bite threatens a critical hit on a natural attack roll of 18-20, dealing triple damage on a successful critical hit.
Frightful Presence (Su)
The tarrasque can inspire terror by charging or attacking. Affected creatures must succeed on a DC 36 Will save or become shaken, remaining in that condition as long as they remain with 60 feet of the tarrasque. The save DC is Charisma-based.
Improved Grab (Ex)
To use this ability, the tarrasque must hit a Huge or smaller opponent with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can try to swallow the foe the following round.
Rush (Ex)
Once per minute, the normally slow-moving tarrasque can move at a speed of 150 feet.
Swallow Whole (Ex)
The tarrasque can try to swallow a grabbed opponent of Huge or smaller size by making a successful grapple check. Once inside, the opponent takes 2d8+8 points of crushing damage plus 2d8+6 points of acid damage per round from the tarrasque’s digestive juices. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by dealing 50 points of damage to the tarrasque’s digestive tract (AC 25). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out. The tarrasque’s gullet can hold 2 Huge, 8 Large, 32 Medium, 128 Small, or 512 Tiny or smaller creatures.
Carapace (Ex)
The tarrasque’s armorlike carapace is exceptionally tough and highly reflective, deflecting all rays, lines, cones, and even magic missile spells. There is a 30% chance of reflecting any such effect back at the caster; otherwise, it is merely negated. Check for reflection before rolling to overcome the creature’s spell resistance.
Regeneration (Ex)
No form of attack deals lethal damage to the tarrasque. The tarrasque regenerates even if it fails a saving throw against a disintegrate spell or a death effect. If the tarrasque fails its save against a spell or effect that would kill it instantly (such as those mentioned above), the spell or effect instead deals nonlethal damage equal to the creature’s full normal hit points +10 (or 850 hp). The tarrasque is immune to effects that produce incurable or bleeding wounds, such as mummy rot, a sword with the wounding special ability, or a clay golem’s cursed wound ability.
The tarrasque can be slain only by raising its nonlethal damage total to its full normal hit points +10 (or 850 hit points) and using a wish or miracle spell to keep it dead.
If the tarrasque loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 1d6 minutes (the detached piece dies and decays normally). The creature can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it to the stump.
Skills
The tarrasque has a +8 racial bonus on Listen and Spot checks.
[/sblock]
Originally posted by Tempest_Stormwind:
...Damn. That's terrifying. With one caveat - it's still foiled by most flying creatures, as it seems to only have rock throwing to use against them. (Really, the only groundborne creature without true ranged attacks that bothers flyers, to my knowledge, is Elder Evils' Golothoma, which can attack anything within 600 feet with "melee" attacks even though it's not actually reaching out to touch them.) Listing its Jump modifier (including how it changes when using Rush) would probably help with this a bit.
Fling Enemy is a nice touch though, and I like Defensive Sweep in this case (particularly because the Big T isn't known to be terribly mobile except on the charge, which usually only happens while rushing).
I'm curious if Int 3 is "enough" to properly use Shock Trooper and Combat Brute together, or if it would just go all-out all the time.
If you want a weird direction to take this, see the Kung-Fu Witchcraft link in my signature. Int 3 is sufficient to qualify for class levels. Quoting RT, "because that's what the Tarrasque needs, Tornado Throw."
Originally posted by Lashius:
That is true, but I figured that its DR/Regen would be enough to outdo most ranged based attacks that aren't magical in origin (with carapace picking up the slack for magical attacks). After all, most ranged based attacks deal damage through quantity rather than single power shots like melee tends to.
The idea for fling enemy was rather simple; if it doesn’t like the taste of something, it “spits” it back out. Defensive sweep came out of another behavioral habit I envisioned for the creature. If something was slow enough to linger in range of its teeth, it would get snapped up with a nice crunch, subsequently next round it either gets swallowed or spat out via fling enemy.
Based on its sleeping and eating patterns I would argue that the tarrasque is a creature of habit and probably give it a trending power attack value (13 seems like a good number just eyeballing it). If something actually did manage to brake its DR I could easily see it starting to go “all out” in a fit of self preservation and full power attacking with shock trooper to try and break the offending weapon, followed by a sundering cleave and then an attempted swallow whole.
As for the fun of shoving people into one another with shock trooper and follow up attacks with combat brute, think of it like a cat playing with its food, or perhaps the chap likes to stack targets up to make a people sandwich, and then starts a rousing game of handball?
That had me laughing for a good long while.
I can see it now, the iconic hermit atop the mountain ready to give their martial arts advice to a worthy pilgrim; and that hermit is the tarrasque—bring plenty of beef jerky.
Originally posted by Slagger_the_Chuul:
I did something somewhat similar in the past, but all I did was reallocate its superfluous Toughness feats, rather than a more extensive overhaul. I did also give it the Rock Hurling/Improved Rock Hurling/Fling Ally sequence as a ranged option, but my other three picks were Improved Toughness (to completely replace the original six feats with no downside), Endurance, and Steadfast Determination.
It could be worse; it could have Leadership.
Originally posted by Pheonix042:
This makes me wonder, what's the deadliest single class level Tarrasque could take?
Swordsage 1? (1/2 HD to initiator level...)
Then he could pick up maybe a teleporting manuever, Searing charge (maybe leaping flame is the teleporting manuever...), and possible some defensive manuevers, or something. Oh, and maybe blood in the water?
Or he could go for Barbarian 1, pick up pounce and whirling frenzy. But that doesn't help with flying things... And the bonuses from whirling frenzy aren't as great when you're already Tarrasque.
Originally posted by Tempest_Stormwind:
Of the two, definitely swordsage - whirling frenzy would be irrelevant given the beast makes natural attacks, and he could get pounce through SSage as well (only once per encounter, but Big T usually only needs to charge once per encounter). With 48 HD, he'd have IL high enough to start with 9ths and then some, and with 6 starting maneuvers he can actually get to any of the 9ths he'd like (see here(x) for why I think that's probably Tornado Throw; you'd generally favor a throw tossing them UP (i.e. still within your vertical reach) into Improved Trip + Improved Grab + Swallow Whole if at all possible.).
Really, though, this is one of the reasons Defensive Sweep is so awesome - it's an extra attack even if you spend your whole action, say, recovering maneuvers or using Adaptive Style.
Originally posted by StevenO:
I wonder if it shouldn't keep Blind Fighting just because of how effective Concealment can be against even massive attack bonuses.
Originally posted by piggyknowles:
If going after fliers is necessary, I see no reason why the tarrasque couldn't pick up Balance on the Sky via feats.
Originally posted by Lashius:
The very thought did cross my mind, perhaps drop iron will for it? I left it in because the beast needed a little help on the will save front, but slagger raised a decent point about steadfast determination (I always forget about that wonderful feat even if it does have a less than practical prerequisite), I suppose you could drop cleave and great cleave for endurance and steadfast determination and then go for blind fight as mentioned prior. Heaven knows the thing would never fail a fort save with that addition though…
Well, I was trying to keep the feat selection practical (in a sense of "what would this creature do to someone in a fight", rather than "cover all weeknesses". Though you are correct ( I think I would go for searing charge however for the distance and charge synergy, that and "flaming flying Tarrasque of D-0-0-/\/\!!1!11!!!"
What about a level of crusader and throw in martial stance-thicket of blades? Lock down Tarrasque with acsses to white raven manuvers...ouch...
Originally posted by Maat_Mons:
Good thinking on martial stance (balance on the sky). It does take up four feats, but you also get three shadow hand maneuvers.
Epic speed would be nice, so he can catch up to people playing keep away more than once per minute.
Deformity (madness) is probably essential. It gives immunity to mind-affecting effects. Without that, a dominate monster spell not only defeats him, but turns him into a major asset for the players.
Originally posted by Slagger_the_Chuul:
It will really only be useful once per minute (when it can use rush). It's not likely to catch any decent flier with its normal 20 ft. movement, even on a charge, but being able to do a giant flaming leap of up to 300 feet is pretty impressive.
You'd need to also alter alignment for Deformity (madness), since it's a vile feat. If you go with Endurance/Steadfast Determination, you get a +10 bonus to Will saves (from being able to use your Constitution modifier instead of Wisdom), for the same feat cost as Willing Deformity/Deformity (madness).Maat_Mons wroteeformity (madness) is probably essential. It gives immunity to mind-affecting effects. Without that, a dominate monster spell not only defeats him, but turns him into a major asset for the players.
It's hard to pick one over the other, though; it can already tank or ignore a lot of Fortitude-typical effects, so Deformity (madness) is attractive even if Steadfast Determination offers something for both sides.
Originally posted by Tempest_Stormwind:
Does anyone else remember the phrenic tarrasque? That thing's a nightmare.
Originally posted by Pheonix042:
Oh my god, I'm scared. I read phrenic (it wasn't long), and I'd like to know what you'd pin the CR at for a phrenic Tarrasque with optimized feats and a level of swordsage and a level of barbarian, both (pounce and rage, I think, instead of whirling frenzy. Steadfast determination, so raging spikes his will by +4 instead of +2).
I'm thinking searing charge would be good, but he'd have to spend a feat to both qualify and pick up searing charge and tornado throw. Of course, he ALSO gets all the benefits of the other 5 setting sun manuevers he grabbed, and a desert wind too, one of which he can use once per encounter and doesn't count against manuevers readied.
Inferno blade has no prerequisites... So that's his prerequisite for searing charge, I think. It's a boost that adds 3d6+25 fire damage to every attack he makes in a round. With a pounce, searing charge, rush combo, that's something like 230 extra fire damage, if he hits with every attack.
I don't know what manuevers I'd pick from setting sun, but the stance should be from that discipline so that he only needs five manuevers known from setting sun, one of which he needs to pick up with a feat (before he becomes a swordsage, so therefore he can use it only once per encounter, but doesn't use up a manuever readied slot).
Idk how deadly this is for those levels, because I've never much played at those levels. But it looks pretty deadly to me...
Originally posted by Maat_Mons:
I just looked at the benefits of shape soulmeld (planar ward). It gives immunity to charm, compulsion, and possession. It's not full mind-affecting immunity, but it mostly only leaves out mind reading. I doubt there's any tactical advantage to knowing what the tarrasque is thinking anyway. I take back the deformity (madness) suggestion. This is a better choice.
Another oversight in the tarrasque's immunities is ability drain. It's immune to ability damage and energy drain, but not ability drain. Shape soulmeld (pauldrons of health) and open lesser chakra (shoulders) can take care of that though.
Originally posted by Lashius:
Yikes...that's one ample mind thrust.Tempest_Stormwind wrote
Though it got me thinking on applicable templates and void mind came to…er…mind. Putting that on Big-T gives him even more immunities (mind effecting effects amongst them) and not only that, but grants another attack that also benefits from improved grab and can maintain a grapple independent of the Tarrasque’s actions. I think the most terrifying thing about this template is that there would be an actual chance it could be inflicted on the Tarrasque in a game through a mindflayer plot.
Originally posted by Andarious-Rosethorn:
Oh god, and three Mindflayers that were powerful enough to Voidmind The Tarrasque? That's just scary.
Originally posted by aelryinth:
Ah, Pierce Magical Concealment will deal with all forms of concealment, except maybe a Smoke Stick...and for that he should have an area attack, right? He'd make a good hulking hurler.
==Aelryinth
Originally posted by Slagger_the_Chuul:
The tarrasque isn't a valid recipient for the Voidmind template, since it requires the creature to be of Tiny to Huge size.
I had a build where I stapled an excessive number of templates onto both parts of an entomanothrope, and the size limit was one of the reasons to have the Voidmind template on the Huge incarnate construct human statue instead of the Gargantuan megapede (the more immediately obvious reason being that the megapede is a vermin).
Originally posted by Lashius:
Damn, I should have figured. The other day I saw that huge was the size limit for a mindflayers extraction but I thought little of it, figgured that they could just up their own size catigory or somthing for bigger targets.
Originally posted by Andarious-Rosethorn:
Dungeonbred Only takes it down 1 category... any other ways to take it down one more?
Originally posted by Maat_Mons:
There's a fluff problem for the voidmind tarrasque. The voidmind template is predicated on having most of the brain removed. The tarrasque's regeneration causes the brain (or anything else) to regrow in 1d6 minutes.
Originally posted by Andarious-Rosethorn:
Can it regenerate if there's goup in the way already? Either way still moot until we have a way to downsize BigT by 2 sizes (which would be amazing on so many levels as Huge monsters can actually fight in places other than a big open field).
Originally posted by Lashius:
I think I may have just come across a rather amazing discovery because of this.
The spell Minute Form off of the wujen class list came to mind since it can actual downgrade a subjects size to a minimum of tiny, the downside it is a personal spell. However, an unlikely class has the ability to aim a personal spell at another target.
Spell Sword.
The Spell Swords channel spell ability has no limit on target, area of effect, range, or spell level that you can channel into your weapon, so in theory you could actually put a personal spell into a blade and hit a subject with it, in this case, the Tarrasque with Minute Form. It only lasts a minute, but the template doesn’t give a time frame on how long it takes to apply the template, so arguably you could forcibly shrink the Tarrasque (the spell offers no save or spell resistance, and big-t isn’t immune to transmutation effects) apply the template, and then have a full sized Tarrasque void mind after all is said and done.
The only hang up is you would need a wujen 13/ spell sword 4 build (or anything that gave 13 levels of wujen caster levels and 4 levels of spell sword) in order to pull it off and it would be arguable if the
template would still apply after the size change wore off.
That all said, I think I may have found a new respect for spell swords channel spell ability considering you could smack an antimagic field on an enemy caster or various other shenanigans (making the party’s lock down crusader tiny sized for example).
EDIT: I forgot the weapons and armor pre-req for spell sword, so you would either need one level of fighter ontop of that build, or swap out a level of wujen for dragon slayer. either way, your probably looking at some kind of gish.
Originally posted by Tempest_Stormwind:
The counterargument is that it also doesn't change the target of the spell, such that "Target: You" spells successfully cast on things that are not You will fail just as assuredly as casting charm person on a dog. You can argue it, but that still means arguing.
The usual way to throw personal spells at enemies is using Spellguard of Silverymoon, (PGtF) and there's no "in theory" about it - that's exactly what it does (cast personal spells on touched creatures - ally or not - so long as the spell is "defensive", defined as one that improves AC, increases saves, or increases HP, two of which a size decrease would do).
Mind you, this trick is usually used with Transcend Mortality (Wu Jen 9), which creates a no-save Death By Awesome effect. (Normally I reserve "death by awesome" to describe what happens if you park yourself on the positive energy plane for a while, but here it works.) But Minute Form is another fun one.
Originally posted by Lashius:
I’m actually not quite sure that would work. The class features states that it has t be a “defensive spell” and states that in order to fulfill that criteria it needs to be “one that improves AC, increases a saving throw modifier, or grants additional hit points (either by healing wounds or by bestowing temporary hit points” (technically the spell would increase your AC by the change in size, but that is an indirect effect related to size mechanics, and not an actual effect of the spell, I recall me, slagger, and aelryinth having a long debate on a similar argument of what spells pierce magical protection would dispel with no real conclusion due to consistent CJ trolling on the topic at the time).
On the other hand, channel spell explicitly states that the spell channeled targets the foe you hit with the strike; “The channeled spell affects the next target that the spell sword successfully attacks with his weapon (saving throws and spell resistance still apply). Even if the spell normally affects an area or is a ray, it affects only the target”, so I don’t see it being debatable on if it would shrink the Tarrasque, but rather "would the template still apply since it is a temporary size change"?
Originally posted by Slagger_the_Chuul:
I think you'd have to exclude Dungeonbred (and other inherited templates) from the tarrasque, since it's a unique creature by default, though I suppose that depends on your background flavour for it. If you plan for it to be the result of magical experiments or to come from a planet of tarrasques, it could make sense, but not if you start with the vanilla tarrasque already in existence.Andarious-Rosethorn wrote
In comparison, you might be able to do the feat adjustment that serves as the basis for this thread with psychic reformation on the vanilla tarrasque (mind flayers are psionically inclined, after all), and if they're trying to turn the tarrasque into an illithid weapon against the surface, it would make sense to give its combat capabilities a mental overhaul.
From what I recall of that, there's a difference in the precise wording compared to Pierce Magical Protection, which specifically ignores "bonuses to AC granted by spells" as opposed to just anything that improves AC as a possible result (granting a bonus to AC is something mechanically specific that a spell can do, while simply improving AC in some way is a general description of a spell's result).
That could form the basis of another whole discussion on its own, but if you were to ask "Is minute form a defensive spell?" without applying a particular context, I'd have to say no, since there isn't anything inherently defensive about the basic effect. If, for example you're defending against regular attacks with AC, decreasing size improves your defense, but if you're trying to defend against grappling, the size decrease makes you more vulnerable. The defensive advantage comes from matching the size change with the right situation, not directly from the spell, so minute form isn't a defensive spell any more than giant form, even though both spells can be used to improve your chances of defending in the right circumstances.
Originally posted by Lashius:
Did a few alterations based on suggestions. Here is Tarrasque 2.1 (I’ll link to the updated version in my original post).
- Swapped out cleave and great cleave for endurance and steadfast determination (credit: Slagger_the_Chuul for the idea).
- Swapped out iron will for diehard
- Added in jump modifier and how it is effected by the Tarrasque’s Rush ability (credit: Tempest Stormwind for the idea).
Also for the fun of it, I dug up this artical since it seemed relivant.
Show
[sblock] Tarrasque
| [ATT align]Size/Type:[//ATT] | Colossal Magical Beast |
| [ATT align]Hit Dice:[//ATT] | 48d10+582 (840 hp) |
| [ATT align]Initiative:[//ATT] | +7 |
| [ATT align]Speed:[//ATT] | 20 ft. (4 squares) |
| [ATT align]Armor Class:[//ATT] | 35 (-8 size, +3 Dex, +30 natural), touch 5, flat-footed 32 |
| [ATT align]Base Attack/Grapple:[//ATT] | +48/+81 |
| [ATT align]Attack:[//ATT] | Bite +57 melee (4d8+17/18-20/×3), OR, Rock+57 ranged (2d6+17) |
| [ATT align]Full Attack:[//ATT] | Bite +57 melee (4d8+17/18-20/×3) and 2 horns +52 melee (1d10+8) and 2 claws +52 melee (1d12+8) and tail slap +52 melee (3d8+8), OR, Rock+57 ranged (2d6+17) |
| [ATT align]Space/Reach:[//ATT] | 30 ft./20 ft. |
| [ATT align]Special Attacks:[//ATT] | Augmented critical, Bull Rush (+37), frightful presence, improved grab, rush, swallow whole |
| [ATT align]Special Qualities:[//ATT] | Carapace, damage reduction 15/epic, immunity to fire, poison, disease, energy drain, and ability damage, regeneration 40, scent, spell resistance 32 |
| [ATT align]Saves:[//ATT] | Fort +38, Ref +29, Will +28 |
| [ATT align]Abilities:[//ATT] | Str 45, Dex 16, Con 35, Int 3, Wis 14, Cha 14 |
| [ATT align]Skills:[//ATT] | Jump +11 (+55 when using Rush), Listen +15, Search +9, Spot +15, Survival +14 (+16 following tracks) |
| [ATT align]Feats:[//ATT] | Brutal Throw, Combat Brute, Combat Reflexes, Defensive Sweep, Diehard, Endurance, Fling Enemy, Hold The Line, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Initiative, Improved Rock Hurling, Improved Sunder, Knockback, Power Attack, Rock Hurling, Shock Trooper, Steadfast Determination, Track (b) |
| [ATT align]Environment:[//ATT] | Any |
| [ATT align]Organization:[//ATT] | Solitary |
| [ATT align]Challenge Rating:[//ATT] | 20 |
| [ATT align]Treasure:[//ATT] | None |
| [ATT align]Alignment:[//ATT] | Always neutral |
| [ATT align]Advancement:[//ATT] | 49+ HD (Colossal) |
| [ATT align]Level Adjustment:[//ATT] | — |
The tarrasque cannot speak.
Combat
The tarrasque attacks with its claws, teeth, horns, and tail.
The tarrasque’s natural weapons are treated as epic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction (treat the tarrasque’s weapons as having a +6 enhancement bonus for the purpose of determining whether it can sunder a weapon or not, the tarrasque generally only attempts to sunder weapons that bypass it’s damage reduction).
Augmented Critical (Ex)
The tarrasque’s bite threatens a critical hit on a natural attack roll of 18-20, dealing triple damage on a successful critical hit.
Frightful Presence (Su)
The tarrasque can inspire terror by charging or attacking. Affected creatures must succeed on a DC 36 Will save or become shaken, remaining in that condition as long as they remain with 60 feet of the tarrasque. The save DC is Charisma-based.
Improved Grab (Ex)
To use this ability, the tarrasque must hit a Huge or smaller opponent with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can try to swallow the foe the following round.
Rush (Ex)
Once per minute, the normally slow-moving tarrasque can move at a speed of 150 feet.
Swallow Whole (Ex)
The tarrasque can try to swallow a grabbed opponent of Huge or smaller size by making a successful grapple check. Once inside, the opponent takes 2d8+8 points of crushing damage plus 2d8+6 points of acid damage per round from the tarrasque’s digestive juices. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by dealing 50 points of damage to the tarrasque’s digestive tract (AC 25). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out. The tarrasque’s gullet can hold 2 Huge, 8 Large, 32 Medium, 128 Small, or 512 Tiny or smaller creatures.
Carapace (Ex)
The tarrasque’s armorlike carapace is exceptionally tough and highly reflective, deflecting all rays, lines, cones, and even magic missile spells. There is a 30% chance of reflecting any such effect back at the caster; otherwise, it is merely negated. Check for reflection before rolling to overcome the creature’s spell resistance.
Regeneration (Ex)
No form of attack deals lethal damage to the tarrasque. The tarrasque regenerates even if it fails a saving throw against a disintegrate spell or a death effect. If the tarrasque fails its save against a spell or effect that would kill it instantly (such as those mentioned above), the spell or effect instead deals nonlethal damage equal to the creature’s full normal hit points +10 (or 850 hp). The tarrasque is immune to effects that produce incurable or bleeding wounds, such as mummy rot, a sword with the wounding special ability, or a clay golem’s cursed wound ability.
The tarrasque can be slain only by raising its nonlethal damage total to its full normal hit points +10 (or 850 hit points) and using a wish or miracle spell to keep it dead.
If the tarrasque loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 1d6 minutes (the detached piece dies and decays normally). The creature can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it to the stump.
Skills
The tarrasque has a +8 racial bonus on Listen and Spot checks.
[/sblock]
Originally posted by Tempest_Stormwind:
Man, now I want to tweak some of those, but don't have all my books on hand.
"I'd like to call this version Godzilla, but any breath weapon it could have according to the rules is pretty short-range compared to the 100-foot radioactive fire breath that the monster used in the movies. But when the tarrasque of legend is standing over Tokyo, I'll bet your players won't quibble much about the length of its breath weapon."
Dragon Magic and Races of the Dragon, with their fun little breath-weapon-related mechanics, didn't come out until the year after this article (and the templated tarrasque is using a cone breath weapon, when it could shape it into a longer-range line and still be more in line with Godzilla). It might be possible to actually hit 100 feet without dramatically altering the template. Still wouldn't be able to do everything Godzilla did with the breath (from the tragic - i.e. the clinic scenes with Geiger counters in Gojira - or the comic - but we will never speak of Godzilla Vs Hedorah ever again), but that's probably for the best.
"Imagine a tarrasque with five heads! Not only would it have five times the biting power, but it could also bring five fiery breath weapons to bear on its opponents! I first tinkered with a thirty-headed version (which the template does allow), but such a creature is really too nasty for its challenge rating, so I don't recommend you make one."
Challenge accepted. And then we'll kill it. Because nothing in the template actually stops the tarrasque from dying from the usual creative player-controlled methods. (Though a couple of them would go away if applied to 2.1, because of Steadfast Determination.)
Quoth Caelic: "Yeah, it's important to remember that the CO board members, in general, don't just think outside the box--we find a way to turn the box into a tactical nuclear weapon and blow up Tiamat with it."
Originally posted by Slagger_the_Chuul:
"Imagine a tarrasque with five heads! Not only would it have five times the biting power, but it could also bring five fiery breath weapons to bear on its opponents! I first tinkered with a thirty-headed version (which the template does allow), but such a creature is really too nasty for its challenge rating, so I don't recommend you make one."
He eventually followed through on the thirty-headed tarrasque.
Originally posted by Pheonix042:
...
CR 40? But it still can't fly...
It doesn't seem like it would be that hard to beat. Just ignore spell resistance and saving throw spells, and then optimize for the spells you're going to use, and them be flying.
Originally posted by Tempest_Stormwind:
The other standard, non-plane-shifting trick (a legion of allips, followed by dumping it in the ocean) also still works, but it should be simple enough to provide immunity to ability score drain (it's immune to ability damage, but not ability drain).
EDIT: Well, it looks like someone illustrated the trick.
Originally posted by Pheonix042:
the link is broken or some-such.
Also, is the Allip some kind of typo? I've always wondered about that. 1d4 wisdom DRAIN at CR 3?
Crazy.
Originally posted by Andarious-Rosethorn:
Yeah and they punish Mindsight, badly. In fact a room with several of them would suddenly render someone using Mindsight comatose.
Originally posted by Slagger_the_Chuul:
Better yet, how about making the allips telepathic? Then they could apply their madness to anything with a language that wasn't outright immune to Wisdom drain.
Originally posted by Lashius:
Hello again all. The other day I was thumbing through a copy of Weapons of Legacy and saw the Monster of Legacy template, thought of big-t once again, and decided “why not”? So, without further wait I give you the Tarrasque of Legacy.
The Fluff:
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[sblock] Some time ago during the Tarrasque’s last feeding cycle, a group of adventurers had the same bad idea that many before had: “hey, we should try and stop that thing once and for all”! The group composed of a warlock, a ranger, a rogue and a sword sage decided that they where up to the task.They where sadly mistaken.
When they where nearly defeated by the legendary creature the warlock managed the smartest idea of the endeavor and used a staff to cast gate, and summoned an ancient gold dragon. The dragon helped turn the tide and the Tarrasque was nearly vanquished. It was then that the rogue tried to use his last wish from a luck blade to slay the creature, however he failed to bypass the Mighty Tarrasques spell resistance, and all was lost.
Barely surviving the encounter, the Tarrasque went on to devour a field of cows (as it usual did that time of the year, much to the dismay of the adventurers ghosts who learned the power of research in hindsight) and went back to its lair to fall into a deep slumber. When the Tarrasque awoke for its next feeding it gained the attention of a Balor who had been trapped on the material plain, and who thought to try and dominate it and perhaps bring it back to the abyss as a trophy for Orcus.
Much to the Balor’s surprise, the Tarrasque was now immune to the effects of mind control, and he promptly ate his would be master. Now possessed of strange powers, the Tarrasque seems to be more active, and is somehow showing up on other plains, and appearing in the middle of towns with next to no warning, and vanishing just as suddenly with nothing but destruction left behind as evidence of its rampage.
Those with the knowhow fear that the legendary beast formed a legacy in its near defeat so many months ago, and that now it is even more powerful than before.
One can only hope that they are wrong.
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The Stats:
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[sblock] Tarrasque of Legacy
| [ATT align]Size/Type:[//ATT] | Colossal Magical Beast (Legacy Creature) |
| [ATT align]Hit Dice:[//ATT] | 48d10+672 (920 hp) |
| [ATT align]Initiative:[//ATT] | +7 |
| [ATT align]Speed:[//ATT] | 30 ft. (6 squares) |
| [ATT align]Armor Class:[//ATT] | 36 (-8 size, +3 Dex, +30 natural, +1 Deflection), touch 6, flat-footed 33 |
| [ATT align]Base Attack/Grapple:[//ATT] | +48/+81 |
| [ATT align]Attack:[//ATT] | Bite +57 melee (4d8+17/18-20/×3), OR, Rock+57 ranged (2d6+17) |
| [ATT align]Full Attack:[//ATT] | Bite +57 melee (4d8+17/18-20/×3) and 2 horns +52 melee (1d10+8) and 2 claws +52 melee (1d12+8) and tail slap +52 melee (3d8+8), OR, Rock+57 ranged (2d6+17) |
| [ATT align]Space/Reach:[//ATT] | 30 ft./20 ft. |
| [ATT align]Special Attacks:[//ATT] | Augmented critical, Bull Rush (+37), frightful presence, improved grab, rush, swallow whole |
| [ATT align]Special Qualities:[//ATT] | Carapace, damage reduction 15/epic, immunity to fire, poison, disease, energy drain, and ability damage, regeneration 40, scent, spell resistance 32 |
| [ATT align]Saves:[//ATT] | Fort +40, Ref +29, Will +30 |
| [ATT align]Abilities:[//ATT] | Str 45, Dex 16, Con 35 (+4), Int 3, Wis 14, Cha 14 |
| [ATT align]Skills:[//ATT] | Jump +11 (+55 when using Rush), Listen +15, Search +9, Spot +15, Survival +14 (+16 following tracks) |
| [ATT align]Feats:[//ATT] | Brutal Throw, Combat Brute, Combat Reflexes, Defensive Sweep, Diehard, Endurance, Fling Enemy, Hold The Line, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Initiative, Improved Rock Hurling, Improved Sunder, Knockback, Power Attack, Rock Hurling, Shock Trooper, Steadfast Determination, Track (b) |
| [ATT align]Environment:[//ATT] | Any |
| [ATT align]Organization:[//ATT] | Solitary |
| [ATT align]Challenge Rating:[//ATT] | 23 |
| [ATT align]Treasure:[//ATT] | None |
| [ATT align]Alignment:[//ATT] | Always neutral |
| [ATT align]Advancement:[//ATT] | 49+ HD (Colossal) |
| [ATT align]Level Adjustment:[//ATT] | — |
The tarrasque cannot speak.
Combat
The tarrasque attacks with its claws, teeth, horns, and tail.
The tarrasque’s natural weapons are treated as epic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction (treat the tarrasque’s weapons as having a +6 enhancement bonus for the purpose of determining whether it can sunder a weapon or not, the tarrasque generally only attempts to sunder weapons that bypass it’s damage reduction).
Ability Enhancement +4
The tarrasque benefits from a +4 enhancement bonus to constitution.
Augmented Critical (Ex)
The tarrasque’s bite threatens a critical hit on a natural attack roll of 18-20, dealing triple damage on a successful critical hit.
Feather Falling
(Su)
The tarrasque immediately gains the benefit of a Feather Fall spell if it falls more than 5 feet in a round.
Fly (Su)
Once per day the tarrasque can issue a mighty roar and gain the benefits of a Fly spell for 10 rounds.
Frightful Presence (Su)
The tarrasque can inspire terror by charging or attacking. Affected creatures must succeed on a DC 36 Will save or become shaken, remaining in that condition as long as they remain with 60 feet of the tarrasque. The save DC is Charisma-based.
Deflection (Su)
The tarrasque gains a +1 Deflection bonus to AC.
Hast (Su)
Five times per day the tarrasque can stamp the ground with his feet as a swift action and gain the benefits of the Hast spell for one round.
Improved Grab (Ex)
To use this ability, the tarrasque must hit a Huge or smaller opponent with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can try to swallow the foe the following round.
Mind Blank (Su)
The tarrasque is constantly under the effects of a Mind Blank Spell.
Obscurity (Su)
The tarrasque cannot be detected remotely through the use of Scrying, Remote Viewing, or any other means of divination, as if continuously affected by the Obscure Object spell, regardless of the fact that it is in fact not an object.
Plane Shift (Sp)
Once per day the tarrasque can issue a mighty roar and gain the benefits of a Plain Shift Spell. Only willing targets may accompany the tarrasque.
Rush (Ex)
Once per minute, the normally slow-moving tarrasque can move at a speed of 150 feet.
See Invisibility (Su)
The tarrasque is constantly under the effect of a See Invisibility spell.
Speed Enhancement (Su)
The tarrasque benefits from a +10 enhancement bonus to its speed.
Swallow Whole (Ex)
The tarrasque can try to swallow a grabbed opponent of Huge or smaller size by making a successful grapple check. Once inside, the opponent takes 2d8+8 points of crushing damage plus 2d8+6 points of acid damage per round from the tarrasque’s digestive juices. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by dealing 50 points of damage to the tarrasque’s digestive tract (AC 25). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out. The tarrasque’s gullet can hold 2 Huge, 8 Large, 32 Medium, 128 Small, or 512 Tiny or smaller creatures.
Teleport (Su)
Twice per day the tarrasque may issue a mighty roar and gain the benefits of a Teleport spell.
Carapace (Ex)
The tarrasque’s armorlike carapace is exceptionally tough and highly reflective, deflecting all rays, lines, cones, and even magic missile spells. There is a 30% chance of reflecting any such effect back at the caster; otherwise, it is merely negated. Check for reflection before rolling to overcome the creature’s spell resistance.
Regeneration (Ex)
No form of attack deals lethal damage to the tarrasque. The tarrasque regenerates even if it fails a saving throw against a disintegrate spell or a death effect. If the tarrasque fails its save against a spell or effect that would kill it instantly (such as those mentioned above), the spell or effect instead deals nonlethal damage equal to the creature’s full normal hit points +10 (or 930 hp). The tarrasque is immune to effects that produce incurable or bleeding wounds, such as mummy rot, a sword with the wounding special ability, or a clay golem’s cursed wound ability.
The tarrasque can be slain only by raising its nonlethal damage total to its full normal hit points +10 (or 930 hit points) and using a wish or miracle spell to keep it dead.
If the tarrasque loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 1d6 minutes (the detached piece dies and decays normally). The creature can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it to the stump.
Skills
The tarrasque has a +8 racial bonus on Listen and Spot checks.
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Originally posted by Andarious-Rosethorn:
luls, you all gonna die.
