Tasha's Hideous Laughter - broken?

[Mistwell]

Yeah, will save or screwed for first or second level spells is always a mistake IMHO.

Yeah, but the list of things you think are overpowered for PCs in this game is longer than the list of things you think are well balanced

 

[frankthedm]

Yeah, but the list of things you think are overpowered for PCs in this game is longer than the list of things you think are well balanced

2 for 1 power attack is bad for both PCs and NPCs and when low level casters can always have a 5% chance of beating high level chatacters every round, yes i think there is a problem.

And it looks like wotc is starting to agree with me on such matters. [4E]

 

[Mistwell]

2 for 1 power attack is bad for both PCs and NPCs and when low level casters can always have a 5% chance of beating high level chatacters every round, yes i think there is a problem.

And it looks like wotc is starting to agree with me on such matters. [4E]

Frank, I assure you, I was not referring to power attack. But, I was only teasing you, so no worries.

 

[Sollir Furryfoot]

What confused me is that Tasha's Hideous Laughter changed in stats from 3.0 to 3.5. Originally it was 1d3 rounds, close range or somesuch, but now it's a touch spell for 1 round/level, will negates. It's effect is very pretty powerful compared to other spells of it level, but it is perhaps balanced by the fact that at the level you get it at, you aren't going to want to be in melee and your attack bonus is pretty terrible (Poor BAB and typically 8 str for a 3rd level wizard for a grand +0 bonus).

 

[frankthedm]

What confused me is that Tasha's Hideous Laughter changed in stats from 3.0 to 3.5. Originally it was 1d3 rounds, close range or somesuch, but now it's a touch spell for 1 round/level, will negates. It's effect is very pretty powerful compared to other spells of it level, but it is perhaps balanced by the fact that at the level you get it at, you aren't going to want to be in melee and your attack bonus is pretty terrible (Poor BAB and typically 8 str for a 3rd level wizard for a grand +0 bonus).

It still is close range

Hideous Laughter
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Brd 1, Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature; see text
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell afflicts the subject with uncontrollable laughter. It collapses into gales of manic laughter, falling prone. The subject can take no actions while laughing, but is not considered helpless. After the spell ends, it can act normally.

A creature with an Intelligence score of 2 or lower is not affected. A creature whose type is different from the caster’s receives a +4 bonus on its saving throw, because humor doesn’t “translate” well.

Material Component
Tiny tarts that are thrown at the target and a feather that is waved in the air.

 

[Sollir Furryfoot]

Ah, my bad, I think I must of mixed it up with Irresistable Dance or somesuch. Hrm, it does seem a little overpowered but I haven't really seen a PC choose it. But I guess my previous thought is a suggested fix if you think it's too powerful then Make it a touch attack (Will negates still).

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Assuming the PC is not a bizarre race, if the target does not gain the +4 bonus, then you should consider using Hold Person instead.

So the real question is whether this 2nd level spell is too powerful, assuming that the target happens to gain a +4 bonus. Is this versatility really enough to make it markedly better than Hold Person or other 2nd level spells?

Glitterdust and Web are really so much more versatile.

 

[Whimsical]

In D&D 4e, Tasha's Hideous Laughter will be renamed to ROFLMAO.

 

[Gloombunny]

Assuming the PC is not a bizarre race, if the target does not gain the +4 bonus, then you should consider using Hold Person instead.

But why? Once you're fifth or six level (and thus able to cast hold person), hideous laughter will probably last comfortably longer than it'll take to get rid of the laughing victim's allies. And once you've done that, it shouldn't be hard to gang up on the laugher and finish him off even without a coup de grace.

I could see the argument for hold person if you already have an ally in position for the coup, but otherwise you're gambling that the victim won't make his extra saves. And even if you can coup the poor guy, your team had to spend two people's turns on taking him out, instead of spending the wizard's turn on taking the guy out of the fight with hideous laughter and having another action to use against the guy's allies.

What am I not seeing here?

 

[Darklone]

One DM I know wanted to balance the spell by adding a verbal component... the player had to tell a short joke everytime he cast the spell. Brought a lot of laughter to the table but didn't really balance the spell