D&D 5E Tasha's Hideous Laughter vs Otto's Irresistible Dance

[Dausuul]

I'm not sure why Otto's doesn't just Incapacitate you and give you a save at the end of each round. Then it would be easier to directly compare what it's giving you. They must have thought that would be too good of an upgrade.

Yeah, that's a bit too good. There are many cases where the target might prefer to accept the debuff and fight through it instead of sacrificing an action (for a save that it might still fail). A spellcaster, for example, suffers no loss of offensive power and likely has minions to hold the enemy at bay.

 

[NotAYakk]

Also, legendary creatures can do legendary actions; if they aren't attacks, there is no penalty on it.

With incapacitated they cannot.

A creature could have dispel magic, and just drop the effect without doing a save. A BBEG could have a mook with dispel magic, and ready an action for after it goes off.

It is already really strong, in that it can give your entire party a turn of advantage attacks and kill a boss monster's action. The fact that it is strictly weaker than incapacitate is good. And as a 6th level spell, you are probably only going to see it well after system mastery has arrived, and then only 1/day until like T4.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

The action to make the save isn't optional, that's your prescribed action each round. Not being Incapacitated means you can still take reactions, bonus actions, and Legendary Actions. And that's about the only difference. For many creatures that only means they can still take opportunity attacks, while others might have a variety of options for fight or flight available.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Neither is as effective as Elsa's Irritating Song.

 

[NotAYakk]

The action to make the save isn't optional, that's your prescribed action each round.

Where does the spell say "must"?

As an action, a dancing creature makes a Wisdom saving throw to regain control of itself. On a successful save, the spell ends.

Lacking a "must", I'd presume this is optional.

 

[Blue]

Ok, so I'd missed some subtle differences in the spells. The advantage on saves With Tasha's I'd missed, which makes it much less useful.

I'd also missed The fact that there is no initial saving throw on Otto's Irresistible Dance.

Thanks for the clarification.

Tasha's doesn't just give advantage on saves, it gives EXTRA immediate saves with advantage that can break it immediately, before their next turn. So if you're trying to beatdown with advantage (which for Tasha's in only adjacent PCs), Tasha's will break pretty fast.

 

[CleverNickName]

Yeah, Tasha's is a fragile spell. It's good for disabling monsters when you're low level, but later on it's pretty much only good for using up your enemy's Legendary Resistances and counterspells. More powerful enemies aren't going to be bothered much by it.

But Otto's? Dang. Otto's doesn't have a save until the target's next turn, and only if it uses its action to save. It's guaranteed to work at least one round, and guaranteed to be a debuff for at least two rounds. (And by the time you're able to cast 6th level spells, that save DC is probably pretty high.) I think 6th level is appropriate for Otto's Irresistable Dance...any lower, and it would be too easy to counter or dispel.

Honestly, both spells are good to have in your catalog.

 

[Weiley31]

One makes ya laugh.

The other let's ya DANCED CRAZY!

 

[Weiley31]

I take Otto's to take out creatures with Legendary Resistance. It's the Dragon Killer spell.

I would pay to see a tap dancing Tiamat or Ancient Wyrm Dragon.

 

[TheSword]

Does any one remember some fluff text from 3e where a Manshoon clone had his prisoner tied, criss-crossed in steel wire... then cast this spell.

I remember thinking that was so evil... and cool... and innovative as most compulsions can’t make you willingly injure yourself!