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[Tavern] Tower's Shard 2011

drothgery

First Post
Tana, gnome female swordmage 5

Tana barely even looks up at the argument over the viability of pacifist philosophy for an adventurer. If they wanted to argue about something interesting, say the competing theories for how various races came to Khorvaire, or the nature of some arcane phenomena, she would have dived into the discussion with a vengeance. But the argument at hand wasn't very interesting.
 

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FourMonos

First Post
The door to the tavern is pushed open, but no one enters. From his vantage point at his table, Braddock sees a dwarf look into the tavern then turn and walk away.

"Ack. I thought I took care of this down at the docks," Braddock mutters.

"You'll be excusing me then, me laddies. I have business to attend before I wander off on anymore adventures."

He pushes himself away from the table, finishes his mug of ale, picks up his craghammer and walks out the door.

A few minutes pass and a human pushes through the door. He is obviously a man of battle, as swords, axes and blades are slung over the back or protrude from sheaths at the hips. His dusty worn travel cloak covers much of his torso, but it is obvious that he wears scale armor beneath it. He wears a wide brimmed traveling hat, similar to those that spend time on the Talenta plains favor. His eyes, tight and squinted, take in the whole of the bar. After just a moments pause, he eases toward the bar.

Brews moves over to take his order and realizes he recognizes the man, "Marshal! What a pleasure! It has been a long time. What brings you back to Sharn?"

The Marshal doesn't smile at the greeting, but nods toward the warforged bartender. "Business as usual, Brews. I tracked someone here, turned them in. I have some time to myself. Thought I would take in the sights."

Brews pours something into a short glass, which Marshal picks up and turns, leaning back on the bar watching the door and the room.

OOC: Marshal Jayce Rikkert has arrived. If you aren't familiar with them, I imagine the Marshals are like the Rangers from the wild west. Wandering law men usually on missions to find fugitives or enforce the laws. He's close to being finished on the wiki
 

Voda Vosa

First Post
Wikipedia said:
In many countries, the rank of Marshal, cf. Field Marshal, is the highest Army rank, outranking other general officers. The equivalent navy rank is often Admiral of the Fleet.
So marshals are more tacticians and generals of higher ranks. PErhaps the word you are looking is sheriff?
Wikipedia again said:
The word "sheriff" is a contraction of the term "shire reeve". The term, from the Old English scīrgerefa, designated a royal official responsible for keeping the peace (a "reeve") throughout a shire or county on behalf of the king.[1]
 

FourMonos

First Post
OOC: I think that sheriff is exactly how you should think of them. The title is still Marshal. I can email you the pdf of the theme if you would like :)
 

Voda Vosa

First Post
No need to, just thought it was odd.

"A marshal? You hardly have the looks, swordslinger. I am Marshal Hilkalas, what is that you call yourself?" Again, Hilkalas sends his thoughts directly to Jayce Rikkert
 

FourMonos

First Post
Marshal Rikkert turns a cold stare to the kalashtar warlord.

His right hand moves his tunic enough to display his House Deneith badge.

Jayce directs a question back to Marshal Hilkalas, voicing it rather than thinking it, "Marshal Hilkalas? Where did you serve in the war?"

OOC: I forgot to post his picture


clint.eastwood.jpeg
 

Voda Vosa

First Post
"Apparently you don't understand the concept of a question. Very well I shall exemplify, as usual: I do not serve. And that conflict merited not my time. By those days I was forging and training an army to defeat the Dreaming Dark." Hilkalas frowns, then his face relaxes, contemplative. "Those were dark days."
 

MetaVoid said:
"It's a basic nature of life, to strive, to conflict, to kill. You revere Balinor. You of all people should accept death and violence as part of life. I agree that if everyone's down and only healer remains standing, in that situation the world is doomed. But consider this...maybe they wouldn't be down if you killed few enemies or weakened them enough to be put down instead of healing and warding. I apologize, I was brought up essentially fighting since birth. Your view looks to me as useless, weak and too idealistic for real world. I'm trying to see some benefit or advantage of such thinking, but I'm failing."

OOC: Nothing personal CFW, just the character. I have paragon level shaman who's nature healing powers are awesome and I like having opposite characters and exploring.
Rava nods slowly at the drow, pursing her lips ever so slightly and getting a contemplative look in her eyes. She cocked her head to the side, almost as if she were listening to someone else in the background of some musical piece that was hiding a distant conversation. If there is anything that a Vassal of the Sovereign Host was good at doing, it was taking in what other people knew and did, and understanding it. This was generally done as a means of expanding the practices of the Sovereign Host and taking in followers that didn't even "know" they were actually part of the Sovereign Host. But that is because everyone native to the natural cycle of Eberron is actually part of the Sovereign Host (or at least that's how Vassals see it). In this case, Rava wanted to absorb everything that Bellagon was saying, so that she could properly address his issues.

"I appreciate that you are well versed enough of Balinor to discuss his teachings. But do, please, keep in mind that Balinor's teachings are about the natural cycle of predator and prey, the everlasting struggle of survival. I do not begrudge an animal's need to survive, and I understand that part of that process requires that it kill others. But we are not animals of pure instinct. We have been given transcendence beyond that primal state into the forms of rational, thinking beings. We are capable of more than base urges of survival and reproduction. Even Balinor, who is seen as the more violent of The Host does not abide by senseless killing. He espouses an acceptance of the natural cycle of life and death. Even Dol Dorn, who I think would have been a better choice for your argument, is the patron of honorable combat. Even in his teachings, one is to respect their opponents, and even give quarter. There is no need for killing. Even in the face of mindless or mad enemies, who could not listen to reason, they are still living beings and have just as much right to life as we do. We should seek other methods of defeating our enemies that does not end in shedding blood and causing death."

Rava pauses or just a moment, to let her viewpoint sink in before continuing. "Now, I am not naive enough to think that what I am saying will sway you or any of the others in this place. I simply wish for you to see that there are some who have a viewpoint other than your own, and that it is not 'wrong', it is simply different. I also accept that any undertaking I am to accomplish that comes from a place such as this will be likely, if not guaranteed, to put me in situations where violence is possible, if not necessary. Now, you mention weakening enemies enough to be put down instead of healing and warding. Part of my repertoire of prayers involves bringing the light of Dol Arrah to my foes to burn away their sins. I would use this as a warning to my foes that further acts of evil on their part would be met with punishment. This would weaken them without shedding blood or ending lives. At least until such time that said foe showed he was determined in forcing us to end his life for him, at which point I would punish him by removing him from the cycle and protections of The Sovereign Host, leaving him to the mercy of those who were willing to perpetrate violent acts upon him in the cause of greater good. However, before even the warnings of Dol Arrah were given, if possible, I would attempt to intercede. After all, one less battle fought is one more battle won, and that much less medical attention that someone like myself, or the healers of House Jorasco will have to attend to."

A sort of smirk appears on her face. "I have always found it somewhat humorous that people have no problems with the halflings of House Jorasco appearing on the battlefield healing both sides, but always seem to attack the idea of having a healing specialist on their team, devoted only to their side. Why do you think that is, Bellagon?" she asks the drow, genuinely curious as to what his answer would be to her question. Allowing Bellagon time to contemplate and respond with his own well thought-out answer, Rava sits still, not fidgeting in the slightest, other than to place her hands together, palms inward, and fingers steepled upward while she rested her arms on the table.

OOC: No offense taken at all MetaVoid! I'm enjoying our little tet-a-tet on the philosophy of pacifist healing. It's giving me a good chance to expand my character's thought processes and get to know and learn about The Host a bit more (since I'm having to research it bit by bit as we have our conversation), since she would naturally include her patrons in her conversation.

 

MetaVoid

Explorer
"Hmmm...you get defensive a lot? I never said you are weak, useless or wrong. Well, at least I didn't say you're wrong. I accept the different. How could I not, being what I am in you civilization. But understand, if you did more of your warnings in purifying fire rather then harmless marks, even if they do hamper the foe, the combat would be quicker and less of your healing powers needed. And in my experience, once the combat starts, there is no persuading to be done.

We may have intelligence glazed over our instincts, but everything and everyone will fight to survive and to keep their way of life. Just as we protect you from aberrations so you can espouse your pacifist principles, so our instincts protect us from foolishly throwing our lives away by surrendering to the power of others.

You can intercede before the battle, I would even encourage you to. But once the violence is inavoidable, you end it quickly and decisively. You either harm those you fight so bad they're afraid to come after you or you harm them enough sothey CANNOT come after you. It's very clear.

Now, let's see...here is the knife."

Bellegon puts his dagger on the table
"Is it evil? No, it's just a tool. It can as easily be used to clean the wound or cut meat as it can for killing. But if someone threatens me, attacks me or puts my well being otherwise in danger, I have no qualms about ending that threat." he puts his hand over the knife and shadows flow over the blade darkening it until it looks like polished obsidian.
"In the same vein, some Droaam or Xendrik "monsters" have their versions of peace in mind. It's just that it usually involves them handling out the peace or punishment. But they do not attack "civilized" lands so they are left alone. Now, let's say you encounter peaceful...mind flayer. You would talk to it. Discuss religion. Discuss the world. And when it tries to eat your brain, you will do what? Yell for help from others who warned you that it may not be good idea? That's why I don't think specializing in healing and practicing non-violence is good. I don't mind a healer in the party. But that healer should be killing enemies just as every other group member. I'm usually out front scouting so I have to be self reliant in case I run into something before the rest of the party arrives. And when the killing starts, as it invariably will, I'll be the one making sure nobody comes after us or our families afterward.

In short, I don't think your oppinion being wrong. Just very impractical in real world. Your belief will bring others of your group into more danger and your powers will compensate by healing them, right? Wrong. It will heal, yes, but the pain was still suffered. The pain that could have been avoided had you burned that last hobbo charger before he hit. Relying on others to do your own killing? How is it different from killing your self? Except you may have some excuse in front of your mirror. Excuse, mark my words, not real reason, just rationalization."


OOC: CFW, it's Bell - E - gon not Bell - A - gon :)
 

OOC: Damn MetaVoid... you had to go and actually lay down a good argument for not being a pacifist cleric... now you got me thinking if I even wanna play this character... cause really, how does one justify not attacking on the battlefield? How the hell did River deal with this? sheesh!
 

MetaVoid

Explorer
OOC: It's not different then playing pure controller. My invoker's damage will never match Bellegons output, but oh, boy, between stuns dazes and punishments for staying close, you really can make enemies sad :)

As long as you're having fun frustrating DM and controlling the board rather then being glorified killer, all's well :) That's why I have (in LEB and L4W: drow darklock, wrath runepriest, bear shaman, centered breath monk and deva invoker - for every type of play something :) - now if I could only get them on adventures :(

With all current feats and items enhancing normal leaders, I do think pacifist is overkill. It's either healing heroic character from death to full on one surge or giving very little in terms of HP to high paragon and epic characters for which fixed bonus of 2d6 means very little (not really sure if it scales?)
 

FourMonos

First Post
"Apparently you don't understand the concept of a question. Very well I shall exemplify, as usual: I do not serve. And that conflict merited not my time. By those days I was forging and training an army to defeat the Dreaming Dark." Hilkalas frowns, then his face relaxes, contemplative. "Those were dark days."
The change in body position indicates you have the full attention of the swordsman. He turns to face Marshal Hilkalas, his eyes turned to slits. He motions brews for two more of the hard liquor drinks and slides one toward the kalashtar.

His conversation changes to telepathic, "Then you have my respect, Marshal Hilkalas. The Dreaming Dark is a fathomless enemy. In my own way, I too have fought them. I lost... a friend... to their end. My name is Rikkert. Marshal is the title of my position as a lawman. We are neutral enforcers of the laws allowed to operate in all the nations." He raises his glass and speaks, "A toast. To lost battles, comrades and friends."
 

Voda Vosa

First Post
"Ah, I see you like this more advanced communication method, good. Truly a relentless enemy to be fought. I've lost many men to it, merely got away with my life. For now." Hilkalas takes the drink. "To lost battles, and to victories to come."

A wave of thoughts intrudes in the conversation between the cleric and the drow. "Pain doesn't really matter in the big scheme of things. In all, it hardens, steels you. Pain is good, to deliver discipline, orders. Pain is better remembered, as a silent whip. Leave the cleric with his healing, in the field of battle, he will have his place, even if he doesn't even lift a weapon. He is much a tool, like your knife; the "killing" not even done by those such as yourself, you are the dagger, again, a tool. At any rate, the killing is done by those directing and coordinating your moves in the battlefield to achieve a goal. Someone like me, or perhaps a king, or a lord, who send you out to some gods forsaken place to retrieve something. Everyone sitting here is a mere tool, waiting in the workshop, this smelly establishment, for someone to pick it up and use it."
 

OOC: It's not different then playing pure controller. My invoker's damage will never match Bellegons output, but oh, boy, between stuns dazes and punishments for staying close, you really can make enemies sad :)

As long as you're having fun frustrating DM and controlling the board rather then being glorified killer, all's well :) That's why I have (in LEB and L4W: drow darklock, wrath runepriest, bear shaman, centered breath monk and deva invoker - for every type of play something :) - now if I could only get them on adventures :(

With all current feats and items enhancing normal leaders, I do think pacifist is overkill. It's either healing heroic character from death to full on one surge or giving very little in terms of HP to high paragon and epic characters for which fixed bonus of 2d6 means very little (not really sure if it scales?)
OOC: It's not the mechanical aspect that I am rethinking. I don't need high dmg numbers to be happy. In fact, my inner gamer is squealing with delight at the thought of taking a solo and nova debuffing him to useless defenses, and watching as my companions then nova the crap outta him because they practically can't miss... and then laughing more when that solo can't hit me or my allies for beans.

It's the RP aspect of pacifist philosophy that I'm having a hard time with. With so many people who would have exactly the same kind of argument that Bellegon has, how can a pacifist say that they belong on the battlefield along with the others? All night after reading Bellegon's argument I was thinking about how Rava would counter that argument and I'm having a really, really hard time coming up with a justification for it. Yeah, Rava has her reasons what with watching her family get obliterated because of the senseless violence of The Last War (remember, all Cyrans "know" what caused the Day of Mourning event... and Rava attributes it to the evil violence of the many waring factions). I tried to think up some kind of "It's not just about healing, its also about preventing my allies from getting hurt and thwarting my enemies without resorting to violent measures, blah blah", but I just couldn't think of how to word it in a way that Bellegon could not just thwart it again.

Gotta say, you had Bellegon make one really well-thought-out argument. =P
 

FourMonos

First Post
OOC: I have one word (for the pacifist): faith. Faith that the path her deity put her on would not be easy, but have purpose. staying true to the path has reason, even if it isn't immediately visible. violence isn't always the way to affect change (see Ghandi). That said, if you want an in-your-face cleric, maybe the battle cleric (one million and one builds) is for you :)

then I had a thought, maybe Bellegon and his smooth words is a test of faith for the deva
 

OOC: Why thank you, [MENTION=88601]FourMonos[/MENTION]! Thank you very very much! I'll have to chew on that for a bit... *Faith in RP reasons for playing Rava restored*!!
 

MetaVoid

Explorer
OOC:
then I had a thought, maybe Bellegon and his smooth words is a test of faith for the deva
OOC:
Words of a true priest/shaman/spiritual leader :D Yes, Bellegon is really evil incarnate, tempter of souls and seducers of the naive. :p


Waiting for deva's answer drow sips his wine.

As the thoughts enter his mind Bellegon flinches visibly going for his weapons.
"Illithid!" is the first response and then heavy clampdown on throughs and emotions, quick and efficient, trained to battle such foes.

A moment later he relaxes a bit.
"Sorry about that. I may be a tool of umbragen, but then, so are you. You may lead few more men given authority, but so can some schuck of the streets. It's your own prowess that is tested on retrieval of secrets, not your strategy over some boards while others do the killing and dying. Do not presume to put your self above me, psion. Your kind would be first to be dominated in our battles."
 
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Voda Vosa

First Post
"It seems I perturbed you so much that you didn't grasp nor understand what I said. Recapitulate, and think what I said. Then reply again. Also, I am no undead; I lost my immortality the time I merged my spirit with those of the monks."
 


MetaVoid

Explorer
OOC: LOL, my mistake. But Voda Vosa still speaks as if quory is separate entity not merged personality which would make him one of the evil ones (inspired?), not kalashtar. Kalashtar are not dominated by their spirits, they are coexistant and essentialy one personality. At least nothing I read indicates otherwise

this is from wiki: quory are incorporeal entities... yadda yadda...merged with human bodies and spirits to form a distinct species.

I edited the post above: changed undead to psion :)
 

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