Technical thread for Server Discussion (merged)
- Thread starter Piratecat
- Start date
Cergorach
The Laughing One
*jaw drops*Piratecat said:
Bloody hell! Opteron 848 procs are for quad or 8-way solutions, so why go with dual if you can go with quad (very nice for a database server). You wouldn't need to fill all the four slots at once (or so i am led to believe), but at a later time (when the procs are a bit cheaper) you can expand without buying a new server.
btw. i just checked, 848 Opterons cost around 1200-1400 euro a piece around here.
A very nice four-way Opteron Tyan server barebone:
Transport TX46 (B4882)
http://www.tyan.com/products/html/tx46b4882.html
Is available for $3000
http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=100149
Opteron 848 is available for $1130
http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=120845
Michael Morris
First Post
General Sequence of Things to Come
Ok, this is the general sequence of events as they will occur. I'm not going to give dates because I don't want to nail the server team down to any artificial deadlines.
Stage 1:
Adlon builds the boxes.
Stage 2:
Thomas & I will take the server down to copy the information on it over to the new machine. Then I will put this machine back online with a warning message in the header - any posts made during that time will NOT be copied onto the new server. No new registrations or reviews will be accepted at that time. Consider it the current server's final days.
Stage 3:
While you guys continue as you always have but with a big red warning on the top of every page, Thomas will be recompiling and reoptimizing the database. There are at least 3 major error points in the database that *I* am aware of, and I'm a rank amateur at MySQL. While Thomas deals with that on the box destined to be the database machine I'll be on the PHP machine updating the code base and repairing the links. I'll also be doing a bit of restructuring, so don't expect any of the links that work now to work on the new server beyond the root address. I'm not doing this to be mean - I'm doing it to cut down on reroutes which make coding and program installation difficult.
Stage 4:
Once Thomas says the databases are ready I'll go in and connect the PHP files to them by editing the config files. Then all the admins will test them.
Stage 5:
The old server will be taken offline permanently and the new server plugged in in it's place. Since the new server will end up in the same place as the current one IP addresses across the net won't have to renew.
And that's about it.
BTW: I think the boxes should have names starting with 'E' and 'N'
Ok, this is the general sequence of events as they will occur. I'm not going to give dates because I don't want to nail the server team down to any artificial deadlines.
Stage 1:
Adlon builds the boxes.
Stage 2:
Thomas & I will take the server down to copy the information on it over to the new machine. Then I will put this machine back online with a warning message in the header - any posts made during that time will NOT be copied onto the new server. No new registrations or reviews will be accepted at that time. Consider it the current server's final days.
Stage 3:
While you guys continue as you always have but with a big red warning on the top of every page, Thomas will be recompiling and reoptimizing the database. There are at least 3 major error points in the database that *I* am aware of, and I'm a rank amateur at MySQL. While Thomas deals with that on the box destined to be the database machine I'll be on the PHP machine updating the code base and repairing the links. I'll also be doing a bit of restructuring, so don't expect any of the links that work now to work on the new server beyond the root address. I'm not doing this to be mean - I'm doing it to cut down on reroutes which make coding and program installation difficult.
Stage 4:
Once Thomas says the databases are ready I'll go in and connect the PHP files to them by editing the config files. Then all the admins will test them.
Stage 5:
The old server will be taken offline permanently and the new server plugged in in it's place. Since the new server will end up in the same place as the current one IP addresses across the net won't have to renew.
And that's about it.
BTW: I think the boxes should have names starting with 'E' and 'N'
Last edited:
Psionicist
Explorer
Piratecat said:
Whoa, excellent.
Now that's a server!
Michael Morris: Eric and Noah?
Adlon
Mortality.net
I like that...
One machine Eric, the other Noah.
eric.enworld.org
noah.enworld.org
Dont worry, MM, these are the network names of the boxes. We can alias a bunch..
Funny, I SWORE I'd not post in this thread. Being in this business for years, to me, a hardware discussion is like an Edition thread here ....
I'm definately am for the Opterons, especially for free. For those of you who have NOT delved many layers deep into specs, the A64fx*'s are essentially Opterons. But, one would have to go deep into the specs to actually get confirmation on that.
I cant see the need for any more than the two Opterons, but adding 6 more would be fun .........
Maybe I can build a Beowulf Cluster .....
Well, as far as the 'worth' of Cyberstreet, hosted, vs. Co-located, etc, et al;
I've spent approx 15 hours this year working/adminning/troubleshooting/securing the box. At $150/hour, that would equate to about $2200.00.
Add those fees, which would be REAL to the cookie cutter co-lo/dedicated hosting firms, and the ever so slight bargain is long gone.
This site, and even though I'm 'on the inside' I have NO clue about the total revenue that ENWorld generates, so, I'll GUESS, based on the activities of this year...
TWO fund raisers alone:
+ or - $25,000.
Regular billable services: hosting, advertisements, etc, yadda yadda.
MAYBE another $5-10-15,000 per year?
Lets use the 10K figure for the ads... Stay with me now ... Again, I'm GUESSING......but, I may be close...
25,000 per year potential: fund raisers
10,000 per year: ad revenues/store revenues.
--------
$35,000
35K. So, at the very base, the files that make up the entire ENWorld site are worth approx $35,000 a year to Morrus.
Lets say you are Morrus. You, being Morrus, want to send someone $35,000. You do so, and have a bad experience. But, you manage to get your money back, after MUCH headache.
You take a chance again, on someone else. It works out, and you are happy. You're happy with the price, the extra perks, etc.
Now, a person you've never met before, except in some online chat/forum, suggests you take that $35,000, and send it to THIS or THAT guy instead.
Well, if YOU are happy and content with the way someone handles your $35,000, would you really consider changing? Would it be so easy?
Now, let me state something right straight out. We do NOT have Morrus by any body part whatsoever.
For those who were here 3 years ago, when ENWorld was hosted on a DEDICATED NT box. The service was crap. HTTPD/IIS/web server software had to be restarted once a day, at least.
As Morrus said, his experience with their tech support was TERRIBLE.
His monthly fee's were not too different from what is being paid now.
Somehow, Morrus and I began talking. IIRC, I offered to help get the OLD vBulletin working better, and had suggested Linux as a better alternative to NT.
I opened up MY site, http://www.mortality.net/board to do a test: Linux vs. NT. We asked for ALL ENWorld members to try to crash my server.
My then little Celeron 400 server, with 128 MB or RAM, handled the horrendous assault of ENWorld members well. Yes, mySQL errors abounded, as my server couldn't handle the amount of querries. One or two PHP optimizations done on the fly helped some.
BUT, my server, nor the OS, never went down. The apps failed due to volume, but the box and OS itself gave everyone the middle finger.
Discussions ensued. I offered to build a box, and get it hosted on Cyberstreet. I got Morrus the rate, he agreed. The rest is history. Well, I guess all that I just said is history, no?
The ONLY problem with Cyberstreet, is that it's in a flood zone, only invoked when a Hurricane shows it's face. We're a block and a half from the Caloosahatchee river, after all.
I work closely with Walter, the owner of Cyberstreet. I have root access on the entire LAN. I have the keys to the building.
There are 'cheaper' deals out there. You'll never know if it's BETTER, though, until you take your $35,000, and send it off, to people you dont know, people you've NEVER met, and to an unknown environment.
Morrus has two of those 3 variables handled. He starts from scratch if he moves.
I'd be sorry, if for some reason, Morrus moved elsewhere. I'd even call his A$$ across the pond to ask if he's feeling ok....
But, it's Morrus' decision, and, he's been here before, and knows what he wants. I hope Cyberstreet continue to give it to him, as I'm sure they will.
One machine Eric, the other Noah.
eric.enworld.org
noah.enworld.org
Dont worry, MM, these are the network names of the boxes. We can alias a bunch..
Funny, I SWORE I'd not post in this thread. Being in this business for years, to me, a hardware discussion is like an Edition thread here ....
I'm definately am for the Opterons, especially for free. For those of you who have NOT delved many layers deep into specs, the A64fx*'s are essentially Opterons. But, one would have to go deep into the specs to actually get confirmation on that.
I cant see the need for any more than the two Opterons, but adding 6 more would be fun .........
Maybe I can build a Beowulf Cluster .....
Well, as far as the 'worth' of Cyberstreet, hosted, vs. Co-located, etc, et al;
I've spent approx 15 hours this year working/adminning/troubleshooting/securing the box. At $150/hour, that would equate to about $2200.00.
Add those fees, which would be REAL to the cookie cutter co-lo/dedicated hosting firms, and the ever so slight bargain is long gone.
This site, and even though I'm 'on the inside' I have NO clue about the total revenue that ENWorld generates, so, I'll GUESS, based on the activities of this year...
TWO fund raisers alone:
+ or - $25,000.
Regular billable services: hosting, advertisements, etc, yadda yadda.
MAYBE another $5-10-15,000 per year?
Lets use the 10K figure for the ads... Stay with me now ... Again, I'm GUESSING......but, I may be close...
25,000 per year potential: fund raisers
10,000 per year: ad revenues/store revenues.
--------
$35,000
35K. So, at the very base, the files that make up the entire ENWorld site are worth approx $35,000 a year to Morrus.
Lets say you are Morrus. You, being Morrus, want to send someone $35,000. You do so, and have a bad experience. But, you manage to get your money back, after MUCH headache.
You take a chance again, on someone else. It works out, and you are happy. You're happy with the price, the extra perks, etc.
Now, a person you've never met before, except in some online chat/forum, suggests you take that $35,000, and send it to THIS or THAT guy instead.
Well, if YOU are happy and content with the way someone handles your $35,000, would you really consider changing? Would it be so easy?
Now, let me state something right straight out. We do NOT have Morrus by any body part whatsoever.
For those who were here 3 years ago, when ENWorld was hosted on a DEDICATED NT box. The service was crap. HTTPD/IIS/web server software had to be restarted once a day, at least.
As Morrus said, his experience with their tech support was TERRIBLE.
His monthly fee's were not too different from what is being paid now.
Somehow, Morrus and I began talking. IIRC, I offered to help get the OLD vBulletin working better, and had suggested Linux as a better alternative to NT.
I opened up MY site, http://www.mortality.net/board to do a test: Linux vs. NT. We asked for ALL ENWorld members to try to crash my server.
My then little Celeron 400 server, with 128 MB or RAM, handled the horrendous assault of ENWorld members well. Yes, mySQL errors abounded, as my server couldn't handle the amount of querries. One or two PHP optimizations done on the fly helped some.
BUT, my server, nor the OS, never went down. The apps failed due to volume, but the box and OS itself gave everyone the middle finger.
Discussions ensued. I offered to build a box, and get it hosted on Cyberstreet. I got Morrus the rate, he agreed. The rest is history. Well, I guess all that I just said is history, no?
The ONLY problem with Cyberstreet, is that it's in a flood zone, only invoked when a Hurricane shows it's face. We're a block and a half from the Caloosahatchee river, after all.
I work closely with Walter, the owner of Cyberstreet. I have root access on the entire LAN. I have the keys to the building.
There are 'cheaper' deals out there. You'll never know if it's BETTER, though, until you take your $35,000, and send it off, to people you dont know, people you've NEVER met, and to an unknown environment.
Morrus has two of those 3 variables handled. He starts from scratch if he moves.
I'd be sorry, if for some reason, Morrus moved elsewhere. I'd even call his A$$ across the pond to ask if he's feeling ok....
But, it's Morrus' decision, and, he's been here before, and knows what he wants. I hope Cyberstreet continue to give it to him, as I'm sure they will.
Last edited:
BSF
Explorer
Adlon,
Thanks for joining in the discussion. As a lurker, I vaguely remember the NT days, and when you asked for people to swamp your server. But I was a lurker and had no vested interest in trying to do that.
You have much more background on EN World's evolution and I think those details really help everyone understand the complete situation. I have been leaning toward a co-located server, but that is because it is what I would do, as a System/Network Admin. Still, I wanted to try to compare the two issues side by side. In the end, my gut feeling still pulled me to co-location. Your contribution to the discussion just helps affirm that feeling.
I really have no say in what Morrus chooses, and I trust him to make the right choice.
Thanks for joining in the discussion. As a lurker, I vaguely remember the NT days, and when you asked for people to swamp your server. But I was a lurker and had no vested interest in trying to do that.
You have much more background on EN World's evolution and I think those details really help everyone understand the complete situation. I have been leaning toward a co-located server, but that is because it is what I would do, as a System/Network Admin. Still, I wanted to try to compare the two issues side by side. In the end, my gut feeling still pulled me to co-location. Your contribution to the discussion just helps affirm that feeling.
I really have no say in what Morrus chooses, and I trust him to make the right choice.
Adlon
Mortality.net
For any concerns about the lag being server, or bandwidth:
This was taken from 'top', a linux version of the Task Manager from windows.
This paste was taken at 11:32 am, EST....
------------------------
11:33am up 20 days, 15:00, 1 user, load average: 20.33, 20.95, 19.58
183 processes: 162 sleeping, 17 running, 4 zombie, 0 stopped
CPU states: 82.7% user, 17.2% system, 0.0% nice, 0.0% idle
Mem: 971424K av, 929368K used, 42056K free, 218640K shrd, 20684K buff
Swap: 530104K av, 17192K used, 512912K free
---------------------------------
As you can see, the CPU is nailed to the wall. We're not worried about memory as much, based on this snapshot. RAM works along side the SWAP.
Nuff said .....
This was taken from 'top', a linux version of the Task Manager from windows.
This paste was taken at 11:32 am, EST....
------------------------
11:33am up 20 days, 15:00, 1 user, load average: 20.33, 20.95, 19.58
183 processes: 162 sleeping, 17 running, 4 zombie, 0 stopped
CPU states: 82.7% user, 17.2% system, 0.0% nice, 0.0% idle
Mem: 971424K av, 929368K used, 42056K free, 218640K shrd, 20684K buff
Swap: 530104K av, 17192K used, 512912K free
---------------------------------
As you can see, the CPU is nailed to the wall. We're not worried about memory as much, based on this snapshot. RAM works along side the SWAP.
Nuff said .....
