Teleporting Enemies into a Pit: No save?

[mach1.9pants]

Mmm for me this is a common sense one. You have to teleport to a 'legal square'* i.e. onto a surface within range. You can't teleport into a pit 'cos the legal sqaure is at the bottom and out of line of sight (unless you are at the edge, then fill your boots). Don't really care what the rules are, it is all part of the '4E is in many ways 2 dimensional' problem... vertical square or cubes with 6' tall people??? \
*EDIT: though I'd be happy for them to teleport a flying creature to anywhere within range, not just a surface.
Anyway like the sorcerer flying utility on the other thread I will rule it to make sense.. no insta-kill teleports (bottomless pit) and no perma-flying IMC.

 

[eamon]

Essentially, this problem existed in 3e too. There, teleports and summons were generally limited such that they only worked onto squares of solid surface capable of supporting the target's weight. This is pretty arbitrary; but it's exactly the same situation as in 4e, and the same (arbitrary) solution works just as well.

I'm guessing that was the intent as well - 4e (as many have said) has a focus on the battlemat, and I'm sure the intent was not to permit people to teleport each other (or even themselves) off into space.

 

[Nebulous]

I'm of the opinion that using a tactic against the PCs that would greatly piss them off, despite how it is a tactic THEY would like to use, then it is probably unfair to all parties involved. During the middle of a game, the "teleport over a pit to fall and suffer" is an argument i don't even want to start.

 

[Ryujin]

Add a rider that only a WILLING character can be teleported into empty space? Add it to the "forced movement" definition?

 

[CapnZapp]

I'm in the "there's really no official answer" camp.

That said; I would allow it, but only after a failed save: if the game allows you to push people off cliffs with "only" a save to, well, save them, then it isn't more (or less) broken to allow "hostile teleportation" to do the same.

Remember that as the DM, you can negate this tactic by simply staging your combats where there are no cliffs and no pits. Or, more interestingly, you can allow your PCs to specialize in "the cliff strategy" and simply set more monsters at them...!

 

[Mithreinmaethor]

Teleportation is Movement and is governed by all the rules within the Movement section of the PHB (p.282 to p.286).

You have to decide if teleporting an enemy is considered forced movement. The list of forced movement doesnt include nor preclude teleportation as forced movement.

In general most GM's and Players I know consider it Forced Movement and therefore has to follow the Forced Movement rules.

So for the question of the OP. If the above is true then you could teleport the enemy to the closest edge of the pit, since PHB p.286 under Forced Movement - Clear Path rule states that forced movement can not move an enemy into a square that it could not walk. The enemy would then make its save to catch the lip etc.

 

[webrunner]

You dont have to bring the 3D rules into this, just replace the pit with super hot instant kill lava.. the rules handle them the same, pretty much.