Tell me about "Any RPG" from before 1990!

[Agamon]

I played a lot of MSH, but that's been covered. Played some Top Secret as a one-on-one game. That was fun. Played Amber Diceless RPG for a few sessions, it was okay. Made PCs for ElfQuest, but never did play. Read Toon, and meant to play it, but never did. Read Dangerous Jouneys, and didn't really even want to try it, it was too complex for my liking. Same with Prime Directive, which was also quite confusing.

Really, the only thing I can tell you is that I dabbled in some of these games, but never really gave them a shot, so they're tough to recommend or even explain.

 

[Morpheus]

Call of Cthulhu is the prototypical horror rpg from any era, but came out in the 80s.
James Bond 007 was a really good game; didn't play it much, but the game system is terrific.
Top Secret-Top notch. A lot of fun and I think Spycraft is a worthy successor to this fun game.

 

[Knightfall]

Empire of the Petal Throne was TSR's second RPG, and mechanically is basically a variant on D&D. Gary Gygax called it "the most beautifully done fantasy game ever created. It is difficult for me to envision the possibility of any rival being created in the future." That's remarkable praise from the Godfather of Fantasy Role Playing!

What sets EPT apart is the uniqueness and richness of its exotic setting, the planet Tékumel. Its creator, Professor M.A.R. Barker, was like Tolkien a linguist who spent a lifetime detailing a world in which his invented languages could live. Unlike Tolkien, his influences were far from the Northern European milieu.

It's a game of swords and sorcery and expeditions into a weird and perilous Underworld, but also of intrigue and social climbing. There are echoes of Medieval India and Pre-Columbian America, of the Mars of Leigh Brackett, of Jack Vance's Dying Earth and Planet of Adventure, and much more besides. There are no elves, dwarves, orcs or hobbits, and there are no stars in the night sky. There are more thoroughly nonhuman species living with or fighting against humanity, and relics of an advanced civilization that fell millennia ago. There are temples to Lords of Chaos and Lords of Stability standing side by side, appeasing the gods with sacrifice and other rituals. There are slaves bearing palanquins on roads like the Great Wall of China, alongside dinosaur-like beasts of burden. There are clan houses that look after their own. There are clanless barbarian adventurers who know that blue light, chime-like voices and the scent of cinnamon mean terrible danger is near.

Cool. Now that sounds like the kind of game that I'd enjoy.

 

[Knightfall]

Bunnies and Burrows.

Essentially, the game where you played as rabbits, in a "Watership Down" style world.

I loved it because it took everything that I thought about RPGs and turned it on its (pointy) ears. It wasn't about the power fantasy, because as rabbits, you never really get that powerful. Sure, you could be the biggest, baddest, toughest guard in the entire warren, but that didn't mean that you could take on a badger!

It had this loose, open style of design that was unlike the other RPGs I played. It painted the game design in broad strokes, and then left it up to you and your players to find the style of game you wanted to play. You wound up defining for yourselves why the mystically-touched rabbit in your party was able to prophesy upcoming events, or how the healer in the party used berries and herbs and leaves to patch you back up after that big scrap with the fox.

It *forced* you, as a player, to think in non-violent terms. When you're a rabbit, you have to think your way out of a lot of situations. You couldn't simply get frustrated with a problem and start swinging -- you had to be cunning.

It wasn't the sort of thing you could play for years on end.

But after a short campaign of B&B, when we went back to D&D, I noticed a significant improvement in the playstyle of everybody at the table. Suddenly the fighter is taking more time to make decisions, weighing options and possibilities before wading into battle. The cleric isn't just mechanically pumping spells for a faceless god, but is instead finding the cool-factor in playing somebody with a mystical connection to the Divine.

You could argue that it was merely a bland, palate-cleansing cracker that made the flavours of other offerings pop out by comparison.

But I prefer to think that there was something very refreshing and cool about the little game where you played as rabbits, working to keep the warren safe from the big, scary world.

I'll second FGU's Bunnies & Burrows, one of the great distinctive games!

Hmm... B&B sounds like the old school equivalent to today's Mouse Guard, which seems interesting as well. Now I have this picture in my head of bunnies and mice going to war against badgers and cats.

 

[Knightfall]

Warhammer RPG - much the game today but rules tended to fall apart as characters advanced in their careers. What stood out, grit and know that a character could get kill, it put caution in the player's vocabulary. It also gave us a fantastic setting in the old world. It sort of gave me an alt to D&D, as I was questioning use of levels and hit point vs monsters, leaning to a skill point driven game and greater character diffentances.

Fantastic game. I left D&D to play this for about 1 year (which is significant for a high school student). I like the new edition of WFRP and I have found that it is very easy to convert old modules to the new system. They did an excellent job with this edition.

I've never really been interested in Warhammer since I've mainly thought of it as a minature game first. If I decided to take a look at it, more than likely I'd go with the new version.

How is WFRP different from the Warhammer minature game? Do I need to have a understanding of the mini game to play WFRP?

 

[Knightfall]

RuneQuest is associated with the world of Glorantha, although there's not a lot of geography or history in the rule book. Little touches from money to magic and monsters manage to convey a distinctive "feel", though, even when treating such old standards as Elves and Trolls. Cults of Prax goes into more detail about a part of the world, as well as providing write-ups of cults that could be adapted to other settings.

Those religions play a big part in providing skills, magic and relationships as well as personality-shaping world views. Every adventurer can fight, cast spells, and sneak; there are no classes or levels as in D&D, nor is there a "character point" system as in other games. One can invest money and time in training, or learn from experience on adventures. Combat is gritty and magic low powered relative to most fantasy RPGs.

(There are super-heroes and other beings of demi-god status afoot in the Hero Wars, and high-level D&D can be a fine rules set for treating their exploits. RQ stats for such entities as the Crimson Bat seem to me to serve little purpose but to call for Sanity Checks on the reader's part!)

The "Basic Role Playing System" introduced in RQ formed the basis for a whole series of other games, Call of Cthulhu being the most famous. It is in my experience very easy to learn, fast-playing and flexible.

I've gained a slight interest in the new version of RuneQuest because there is a Lankhmar sourcebook for it.

How does the new version compare to the original/older version(s)?

I'd want to use the Lankhmar book with the "best version" of RuneQuest.

 

[Varianor Abroad]

Champions - ah, there's a fun superhero game. Hexes rule the battlemap. Stats are calculated based on points - the same as how you buy your powers. Essentially, everything has a cost, including skill ranks. I don't really think that there was a big downside except that every edition made it more consistent and nerfed a few powers. We liked playing 2nd and 3rd. They are now up to 5th Edition. M&M comes close, but I could pick up a giant handful of d6s any day and get into Champions.

GURPS Second Edition- This was another interesting point-buy system. Heavy on skills. It used by disadvantages and quirks. Disads in Champions never bothered me - they got worked into the plot. In GURPS I don't care for them because they can really cripple you. The one major issue with the system is the bell curve. You roll 3d6 for everything. So an average roll is an 11. It was very easy to boost skills because there were only four stats (ST, DX, IQ, HT) and beat the bell curve. I also didn't care for Health so much. You got quickly into trouble as you lost it. It's a very good system for a power level below D&Ds.

 

[Krensky]

Well, it's not quite in the explicit time frame, but they're certainly older:

Pretty much everything by R. Talsorian before Mike Pondsmith got hired by Microsoft.

Cyberpunk (2013 and 2020): The first cyberpunk game I can think of, and the one that best captures the 80s hair metal, mirror shades, and full auto feel of the "classic" cyberpunk genre. One of the 2013 source books as a licensed adaptation of the seminal novel Hardwired by Walter John Williams, written by the author himself. Features 'classes' in the form of archetypal roles. Each class basically gets you a small benefit, some hooks, and a class skill. No matter how good someone is at a mundane skill, if you class skill applies, you'll probably win. This wasn't a flaw, so much as a way of enforcing genre. Basically, no other character role would be as good in your specialty as you were.

Cybergeneration (First and Second): Takes place in the near future of Cyberpunk (2027), with the premise that PCs are post human children. Can be much more light hearted and comedic then Cyberpunk, but only because it can be much much more bleak. Each kid had a yogang (social tribe) and an Archetype (evolved power). There are also rules for playing Edgerunners, the adult cyberpunks from 2020. Largely the same system as 2020.

Mekton (I, II, Z): The first Anime RPG outside of Japan, and still a strong contender. Also the system Dream Pod 9 first wrote Jovian Chronicles up with (II). Z's construction tool kit let you build anything, and with notes from the GM Screen could even build stuff for Cyberpunk 2020 and by extension Cybergeneration. One of Z's settings (Starblade Battalion) was also the future of Cyberpunk (2180), and maybe of Cybergeneration as well. Z also has an official Japanese translation that sold very well and was licensed a few times by Japanese publishers, most notably for a Gundam RPG in 2000. Z also categorized PCs as one of three types. Ventrans (older, more skills to start, slow advancement), Rookies (low skills to start, quick advancement), and Proteges (low skills, slow skill advancement, except if one area where the advance at an insane rate).

One of the drawbacks to these three games is that the Reflexes score is over loaded (all combat skills are based on it) and it can be pretty easy to break the game. They are also designed to an earlier standard, and have many more 'holes' and spots where you'll have to make a judgement call.

Castle Falkenstein: A cross world adventurer, a faeire lord, magical steam punk Europe. Very, very distinctly a storytelling game, somewhat geared for LARPing. Resolution is with cards (standard poker deck, iirc), characters were recorded in journal form in prefrence to simple sheets, the rulebook can be read (largely) as an epistolary novel or a RPG. Really a cool game.

Teenagers From Outerspace: A commedic game, usable as a generic light anime system. Humans, wacky aliens, high school. Pretty self-explanatory. Similar to Toon!. Well suited for replicating Tenchi Muyo! or Uresei Yatsura. Has an interesting mechanic that 'punishes' you for succeeding too well to discourage characters that will break the genre conventions.

Then there are the liscensed games from the time. I understand Armored Trooper VOTOMS is well done. I know nothing about Dragonball Z, other then it has a page devoted to determining the results of things like 850d6 or higher. Note that the game admits this is an issue with trying to cover the range of powers in the source material and because it's tounge in cheek. Gundam Senkei (the aforementioned Gundam game) was released in 2000 in Japan, were still waiting on the US release. I can speak to the last one, Bubblegum Crisis.

The three books released for the BGC RPG are full of art (some not released until these books) source material from the TV series and OVAs, along with a very good rendition of Fuzion that lets you raid from Cyberpunk 2020, Cybergeneration 2, and Mekton Z. It also presents pretty much ever major, minor, or bit character from them, all of the boomers (and a bunch that never made it), rules for making your own vigilante team, and material for using the massive amount of published material for Night City (the default locale of Cyberpunk 2020, like Seattle in Shadowrun). I ran a long campaign in it and still have fond memories of it.

 

[Ariosto]

I've gained a slight interest in the new version of RuneQuest because there is a Lankhmar sourcebook for it.

How does the new version compare to the original/older version(s)?

I'd want to use the Lankhmar book with the "best version" of RuneQuest.

My personal preference is the 1st/2nd Chaosium editions (which differ on only a handful of details, 2nd being mostly the same text with better layout). Moon Design has published reprints of supplements (including the excellent Cult Compendium). However, the basic rule book may be hard to find.

The 3rd edition, a Chaosium design published by Avalon Hill, is a bit more complex and features many changes and additions (including a third magic system, sorcery, that often catches flak for being unbalanced). Some people prefer it, and I like some bits better. The saddle-stapled books have flimsy covers, but might have held up well in the box. The (UK only?) trade paperback would probably be most desirable. Failing that, I would go for the "Deluxe" boxed set (not one of the cut down editions, as you'll end up wanting the cut out material).

To judge from the SRD, Mongoose RQ is a pretty odd beast. One reason may be that the trademark (and Gloranthan setting) are licensed from Greg Stafford's Issaries, Inc. -- while the copyright on the old rules still belongs to Chaosium.

The changes to experience seem to me not so good, the new combat round clunky and a bit bizarre. Some folks may like that Hit Points are now only per location, but that some might prefer not to use hit locations in the first place is just one reason to have the "basic" value as well.

The standard rune names are (from what I've seen glancing through books) applied to different actual symbols. The magic system is a mishmash of bits and pieces from the old game plus some new ones. It might work just fine, but it looks like radical change just for the sake of change (and maybe a bit of the "D20 System" style of complication).

The spell list is made up mostly of old Battle (AKA Spirit) Magic spells, but now that's called "Rune Magic". In the old game, Rune (AKA Divine) Magic is quite different. (There are other confusing redefinitions, such as "strike ranks".)

Many rules (e.g., poison) now use a system of opposed % rolls derived from ability scores rather than the old single roll based on the simple resistance formula (50%, +/-5% per point of ability higher/lower).

Hero Points and Legendary Abilities seem like gratuitous additions. The latter mostly have a very "3E D&D Feat" feel. They also include the Rune Lord and Rune Priest statuses, but I don't know how MRQ deals with those. The SRD does not mention Shamans and spirits.

My guess is that it would not be too difficult to use the Lankhmar supplement with Chaosium's RuneQuest (meaning all three previous editions), given the information in the SRD. Going the other way (from old source material to new mechanics) would be harder without familiarity with both editions, especially in terms of magic. The basic characteristics are the same, and a skill % can be used as is or adjusted to taste.

The Mongoose version of Glorantha is set in an age prior to that depicted in earlier versions, which is intriguing. Unfortunately, the firm's track record with editing is none too good and the prices of the books seem to me too high.

 

[Ariosto]

Also, TSR published a Lankhmar supplement and several modules for AD&D (and much earlier a board game based on a design by Fritz Leiber and Harry Otto Fischer).

Some RQ-related things perhaps of interest:

Chaosium's Stormbringer, based on Michael Moorcock's saga of Elric of Melnibone, is in some ways closer to old RQ. The magic system is different, though, focused on the summoning of demons by specially trained adepts. I think it would work nicely for a Nehwon campaign as well. As it was more recently in print (including, I think, an edition from another publisher -- Green Ronin?), it might be easier to find.

Chaosium some months ago published a deluxe volume of rules drawn (with some modification) from the whole range of Basic Role Playing System games -- from swords & sorcery to modern horror, superheroes to interstellar adventurers.

Check out this Web site: BRP Central
From the Links page:
Basic Role Playing System has material from the old Worlds of Wonder set. The Magic World book is incomplete, but includes the simpler precursor to the Sorcery system in 3rd ed. RQ.
GORE- Generic Old-school Role-playing Engine is a BRP "retro clone" of sorts. If memory serves, the basic mechanics of the magic system are similar to those in Call of Cthulhu, and so closer to old RQ Battle/Spirit Magic (complete with Magic Point resistance) than what's in the MRQ SRD. (Old Rune/Divine Magic involves sacrifice of Power for spells single-use for initiates, reusable by Rune Priests after prayer in a temple.)