Tell me about d20 Star Wars.

[Lord Pendragon]

So I recently played my first session of a d20 Star Wars (Revised) game. I'm a Jedi Guardian, in a group of several Jedi and a Soldier. Things I've noticed so far:

* Star Wars is a lot more deadly than D&D, which was itself deadly. We started the game as 5th-level characters, and even so a single critical hit could kill most of us. My own character did 3d8+9 (after Enhance Abilities) with his lightsaber. High enough to kill any party member on a crit. A foe with the same level of saber-skill = ouch.

* Jedi aren't an overwhelming class. At first I was led to believe Jedi far outclassed any non-Jedi hero, but after seeing the soldier with a blaster and Multifire mow down a number of mooks, it seems that, though strong, Jedi aren't the only way to go at all.

* Offense > Defense. I already mentioned the super-lethal critical hits, but in general there's just a high amount of damage being dealt. A heavy blaster does 3d8, a lightsaber does (at 5th-level) 3d8... And vitality/wound points are hard to come by in a game without magic items. There also hasn't been any armor introduced in the game so far, though that may simply be due to the earliness in the campaign.

I come from a D&D background (nearly 2 years playing), and this is my first SW game. What other differences do I need to watch out for? Where is the balance changed? What things are more or less dangerous than a D&D game?

Any impressions/advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[d4]

* Star Wars is a lot more deadly than D&D, which was itself deadly. We started the game as 5th-level characters, and even so a single critical hit could kill most of us.

that's generally true. but in another sense, SW is a bit more forgiving. to stabilize when at negative hit points in D&D, there's only a 10% chance per round. in SW, it's a DC 10 Fort save... much easier to make. i rarely see anyone fail more than once or twice before stabilizing.

also note that Vitality returns per hour, not per day like hit points in D&D. PCs can have several fights in a single day without healing and still be all right.

medpacs and medkits can heal small amounts of Vitality and Wounds, as can Jedi with their Heal Self and Heal Another skills.

* Jedi aren't an overwhelming class.

no they aren't, thank goodness!

* Offense > Defense. I already mentioned the super-lethal critical hits, but in general there's just a high amount of damage being dealt. A heavy blaster does 3d8, a lightsaber does (at 5th-level) 3d8... And vitality/wound points are hard to come by in a game without magic items. There also hasn't been any armor introduced in the game so far, though that may simply be due to the earliness in the campaign.

well, since Defense bonus goes up with level, most mid- to high-level SW characters are going to have comparable Defense scores to similar level D&D PCs' Armor Class (in my experience). so if you use the SW paradigm of throwing hordes of low-level mooks at the party, most of the mooks will have a hard time hitting the PCs.

armor can really help soak up Wound damage, so it can be good for some types of characters. Jedi should be deflecting a good percentage of the blaster bolts aimed at them, so they probably won't be taking too much damage from blasters once they get into the mid-levels.

also, don't overlook Force Points. they can be a huge help in combat.

 

[SSquirrel]

* Jedi aren't an overwhelming class. At first I was led to believe Jedi far outclassed any non-Jedi hero, but after seeing the soldier with a blaster and Multifire mow down a number of mooks, it seems that, though strong, Jedi aren't the only way to go at all.

* There also hasn't been any armor introduced in the game so far, though that may simply be due to the earliness in the campaign.

For the second point there I assume that you just mean none ahs been introduced in your game as there is indeed armor in the mainbook, well at least in the 1st Ed book. I don't own the Revised so I can't comment for sure on it. 1E SW d20 wa son page 121.

On the first point, I think Revised must have done a better job of making the balance better b/c in 1E Jedi still seemed pretty powerful. Not nearly as powerful as Jedi got in the old WEG system, but still pretty darn powerful.
Never got the chance to play any d20 SW sadly enough so I never spent to time with the blaster rules for things like Multifire. I'm sure it's pretty nasty tho

Hagen

 

[Pagan priest]

One thing to be aware of, as you use those nifty abilities of a Jedi, your vitality is decreasing. All those powers burn vitality. Since this is a big change from D&D, you need to keep it in mind. Don't stop using the powers, just keep an eye on you remaining vitality points.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

well, since Defense bonus goes up with level, most mid- to high-level SW characters are going to have comparable Defense scores to similar level D&D PCs' Armor Class (in my experience). so if you use the SW paradigm of throwing hordes of low-level mooks at the party, most of the mooks will have a hard time hitting the PCs.

armor can really help soak up Wound damage, so it can be good for some types of characters. Jedi should be deflecting a good percentage of the blaster bolts aimed at them, so they probably won't be taking too much damage from blasters once they get into the mid-levels.

Two things:

1) Defense doesn't go up very fast, and you won't have nearly the AC as a D&D character would; you're really limited to class bonus, Dex, and dodge. That's it. This means you get hit often, and they confirm crits fairly often...which means you die.

2) Armor is good only if you're wearing it, and you can only really get away with wearing light armors in civilized areas...people don't look at you funnily when you're running around in powered armor, they call the police. Even then, armor gives you a *chance* to not die on the first wound hit. The second hit, you're probably screwed.

Our party gets to add max Vitality at each level, and we've still taken losses. I don't know what we'd do if we had to roll; the fixed VP gains/level for the Living Force seem ludicrously low.

Also, stun is MEAN. If you're hit by a stun bolt or stun grenade, you get stunned...regardless of whether or not you make your save. The save's to see if you get knocked out for d4+1 rounds, or just stunned for the round. If you're stunned, you drop what you're carrying, and lose your next action...so, the obvious cheese is to have someone win initiative and stun the party*, and then either leisurely shoot them, or capture them.

* - In Arms & Equip. Guide, there're specialty stun weapons that fire cones of stun. *Very* rude. Grenade launchers with stun grenades are also your friend; also, remember that people drop their stuff, which becomes unattended objects, which means area-effect things, like, say, regular grenades or thermal detonators can destroy their stuff.

Brad

 

[d4]

1) Defense doesn't go up very fast, and you won't have nearly the AC as a D&D character would; you're really limited to class bonus, Dex, and dodge. That's it. This means you get hit often, and they confirm crits fairly often...which means you die.

this hasn't been my experience, and i'm halfway through my second SW campaign. the PCs get hit sometimes, only infrequently fall to negative Wounds, and no one has ever died (the stabilization save is easy to make for even 1st level characters). my bad guys seem to only rarely confirm crits. a Jedi PC who always takes advantage of blaster deflection and lightsaber defense is a difficult opponent to take down.

Our party gets to add max Vitality at each level, and we've still taken losses. I don't know what we'd do if we had to roll; the fixed VP gains/level for the Living Force seem ludicrously low.

i have the PCs in my campaign roll Vitality, and we haven't encountered any problems yet.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

this hasn't been my experience, and i'm halfway through my second SW campaign. the PCs get hit sometimes, only infrequently fall to negative Wounds, and no one has ever died (the stabilization save is easy to make for even 1st level characters). my bad guys seem to only rarely confirm crits. a Jedi PC who always takes advantage of blaster deflection and lightsaber defense is a difficult opponent to take down.

How...strange. They're mostly facing thugs? We tend to fight more leveled characters.

Also, note that lightsabers can't deflect big things, like grenades, nor can they deflect stun bolts. And, since ranged attacks don't provoke attacks of opportunity, an NPC can run up to the Jedi and stun him from point-blank range, while his partner then shoots the lightsaber.

Brad

 

[d4]

How...strange. They're mostly facing thugs? We tend to fight more leveled characters.

i generally put them up against opponents that are about half their character level, but usually two to three times as numerous. i tend to use the normal "heroic" classes more frequently than the "NPC-only" classes.

(for example, in the last session with two 7th-level Jedi, an average combat would be against 4-6 3rd- or 4th-level Soldiers. the PCs generally have no problem at all at taking down these opponents.)

i do throw harder things against them, and they still haven't had much problems. one climactic battle was the two 7th-level Jedi with two 5th-level NPC allies against a 9th-level Sith Warrior, an 8th-level Dark Side Devotee, three 4th-level Dark Side Marauders, and a 4th-level Soldier. the PCs and their allies, who were injured from a previous fight, still managed to win although one of their allies died (the Sith Warrior expended a Force Point with her Sith sword and was doing around 6d6 damage per hit).

Also, note that lightsabers can't deflect big things, like grenades, nor can they deflect stun bolts.

not according to the rules as i've read them.

page 61: "A Jedi learns to deflect blaster bolts and other projectiles with her lightsaber... When used in this fashion, the Jedi gains the dodge bonus against all ranged attacks directed at her in the round."

Deflect (attack) can only be used against blasters, but even with that, i see nothing in the rulebook that says you can't deflect (attack) stun bolts.

i've found that trying to stun Jedi is a risky proposition, since you have to be within 4m of your target (maximum range for any stun bolt). if you miss, the Jedi will be on you next round.

so on the whole, i only rarely use stun effects against my PCs. maybe that's where we're seeing a difference? how often does your party face opponents trying to stun them?

 

[Kavyk]

If you do not have the Hero's Guide, you would be unaware of a rules clarification on page 135 of that book, which states that the lightsaber deflection ability is specifically not effective against:

Large thrown objects, such as nets
grenades and explosives
stun attacks

But now you know what the designers meant, if not what they said originally.

 

[d4]

But now you know what the designers meant, if not what they said originally.

interesting. looks like i'll be continuing to cheerfully ignore that rule in my SW campaign...