Tell Me About M&M

Cryptos

First Post
I dislike mechanically homogenous attacks. I don't like that an energy beam, tank shell, dragon breath, or a million other attack types are all mechanically identical. I like that in D&D a guy with a sword is a bit different to a guy with an axe, who's a bit different from a guy with a polearm. I know there's attack descriptors like "maximum power" and all that, but it doesn't seem enough to differentiate when any power might have these descriptors regardless of its source.

That's just bizarre.

You have to design each power to have effects and modifiers that make them different. Just off the top of my head, because I haven't messed with it in a while, a fire-based power might have something like a 'contagious' advantage and a sort of damage over time advantage to show that fire lingers and spreads, with the partial limitation that the 'contagious' effect spreads only to flammable materials and items. A mystical sledgehammer might have a knockback effect. A guy with a laser pistol might have autofire, penetrating, and so forth. The dragon's acid breath might be linked to a corrosion power that degrades armor and equipment, and have a cone shape advantage.

So yeah, every damage power is going to feel the same if you don't put any effort into designing the power to do what you want to do. In many other games, all the powers are already set up for you and you pick from a list, but you don't have as many options for customization or choices to do whatever you want. When you fully design that power in a system like M&M, with status effects, blast shapes, ranges, limitations and advantages, it comes out just like any power in any system. You can make Flaming Sphere in M&M work exactly as it does in D&D. But you have to make it, just as someone made Flaming Sphere. For D&D, someone made Flaming Sphere. In M&M, you get to make it yourself.

You have to make the powers different. Otherwise, they're not different. That shouldn't come as a shock. That's how pure point buy systems usually work.

And even with just the descriptors (different from modifiers, the "fluff"), which don't technically do anything, they can matter when coming up against someone that has a resistance or immunity to that power type. That's no different than D&D or any other system, though... it doesn't matter much if it's Force damage or Thunder damage until you come up against a resistance (except for the modifiers you build into the powers.)

It's equally strange, to me, at least, that you would just give everyone damage powers, let alone damage powers that haven't been designed to be different. In a system where you can have someone whose body is a portal to their own pocket dimension and they can grapple their foes and stuff them in what basically amounts to a portable hole, or have someone who can turn their enemies' weapon into a liquid puddle, or create a solid hologramatic landscape that turns city streets into jungle environments, creating chaos, difficult terrain, creating swing lines and trapping foes... why would you even want everyone to just have damage powers?
 
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Silvercat Moonpaw

Adventurer
Glad to see people enjoying it, but I didn't think it was the game for me.
I can see why you don't like it, but I have to say that what you mentioned is where you hit all games' issues with customizability and ease-of-use. The more customizable a system is the more it can be abused, and the easier to use a system is the more it is likely to not be good at simulationism (at least these have been my experiences).
 

Trickstergod

First Post
2) Everyone needs to have the max level in any given power to be really competitive. If the PCs have a maxed out blaster, you need to give your villain a really high defense that corresponds with it or they go down very quickly.

That's not really a problem with the system, though - Power Level is set by the Offensive and Defensive caps. If a character has a +8 to hit and damage with their Blast power, that character is a PL 8 Offensively. If that same character only has a +6 to their Defense and Toughness saves, they're a PL 6 Defensively. Arguably said character averages out to about a PL 7, but it still stands that those caps are what set the PL, in essence.

Other factors such as Skills are tied into PL, but it's really the offensive and defensive capabilities of a character that define their Power Level.

Even then, there are ways around that - a mastermind with a few minions that have the Interpose feat can skimp on defense a little, just as one example.
 

Felon

First Post
1) Bruises and Injured levels never really feel like damage, and particularly with resilient bad guys, there can be a sense of blasting away and achieving very little.
Well, if you're fighting Ultron or Darkseid, then yeah, it can tough to make a dent. How do they handle it in the comics? What does Hawkeye or Batman do in such a battle?

2) Everyone needs to have the max level in any given power to be really competitive. If the PCs have a maxed out blaster, you need to give your villain a really high defense that corresponds with it or they go down very quickly.
Well, it's good to be either tough or hard to hit, as dictated by PL. Otherwise, you either need a strong offense or someone to take up the role of defender.
 


Mallus

Legend
You basically need an iron GM and very mature players or you'll end up with a lot of min-maxing in the character concepts. Certain powers (when I played, it was super-speed that seemed overpowered) are a lot better than other powers, and some powers work only if the GM allows them to.
M&M --along with games like Champions-- rely heavily on the idea that game balance is something that's maintained/enforced by everyone playing, not just the GM/DM. This is how my group plays D&D and it makes things much easier.

Combat seemed very swingy - a hit could bounce off your Pecs of Steel, doing nothing at all, but the next one from the same guy put you out cold. I prefer hit-points, for all their stupidity - I like having a bit of plot protection, and feeling like I'm actually getting somewhere in a fight each time I hit.
What makes M&M combat less swingy --and a lot like classic comic-book battles-- is the use of Hero Points. If the GM isn't doling out Hero Points regularly during combat, they're doing something wrong. HP's aren't rewards, they're a renewable character resource meant to used frequently each session.

I dislike mechanically homogenous attacks.
M&M allows you to construct far more varied attacks than 3e. For example I'm pretty sure you can duplicate every damaging effect (spell and weapon) that exists in 3e using only the core M&M rule book. And that's just for starters.

I don't like that an energy beam, tank shell, dragon breath, or a million other attack types are all mechanically identical.
They are only identical if you build them identically. For instance, the beam would be a straight Energy Blast, the tank shell would be EB with the Explosive extra, and probably Piercing (or whatever it's called), the dragon's breath would be EB with area-of-effect Cone... and so on.

I like that in D&D a guy with a sword is a bit different to a guy with an axe...
Are you saying you can't make a sword different from an axe in M&M?
 

Gort

Explorer
Are you saying you can't make a sword different from an axe in M&M?

No, I'm saying that the game does none of the work for you in this respect, so it is often left undone.

I'm not going to continue to argue in the thread though, I really don't have a great deal of experience with M&M, I simply didn't enjoy playing it for the reasons I gave. Your mileage varies, I'm comfortable with that.
 

Rechan

Adventurer
They are only identical if you build them identically. For instance, the beam would be a straight Energy Blast, the tank shell would be EB with the Explosive extra, and probably Piercing (or whatever it's called), the dragon's breath would be EB with area-of-effect Cone... and so on.
Sounds like HERO.

Which is a good thing.
 

Punnuendo

First Post
As someone who is a big HERO fan, I love M&M because it allows me to do almost everything I love about HERO, but also allows me to find players actually willing to play the game.

As a very customizable game with a medium level of crunch, it fills a nice niche for me in between HERO and Savage Worlds.
 

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