Tell me how crazy I am? [Dresden Files / Gotham City]

[OGIHR]

Let me start off by saying that I know I'm crazy. But I'm wondering how far over the deep end I'm sitting here.

I have always been strictly a narrative gamer, with the quality of the story being my foremost concern as either a player or GM. And after my D&D: Curse of Strahd game imploded due to one player's adamant refusal to stop derailing the atmosphere of horror I was working to create, I have spent a lot of time thinking about what game I should try running next.

I've always been intrigued by the Dresden Files RPG's rules for the players collaboratively fleshing out the setting elements which appeal to them before they even make their characters (which then makes it so beautifully easy to give each PC a personal stake in the stories their player expressed interest in during the City Creation process). But I have only lived in Pennsylvania for a few years, so I don't have a shared local knowledge base with the local RPG community.

And I have also never enjoyed traveling for either business or leisure, so my knowledge of most other cities (apart from where I grew up back in NY state) is scant at best.

But there is another option at hand for creating out own city to set our game in; "a city that everyone is used to seeing on TV". Or in my case, in comic books.

And the first time I read that paragraph, my thoughts turned immediately to Gotham.

Like most people, D&D was the first RPG I encountered; but the first one I fell in love with was the DC Heroes system by Mayfair Games. I still have all the books I was able to find for it (both in print and with PDFs of the full pages scanned as photos), including a 1st edition sourcebook for setting adventures in Gotham City. It's a very 1980s rendition of the city, long before it became fashionable to have a big crossover storyline every year devoted to being as shockingly pointlessly self-destructive as possible. It's what I grew up with.

The book includes nine pages of text providing an overview (from Commissioner Gordon's POV) of each of the city's 24 districts, in a manner very similar to the way Chicago is written up in the Dresden Files RPG's "Our World" book. As well as a city map which is obviously a hand-drawn copy of Providence Rhode Island shifted slightly clockwise, rather than the version created for "let's have a plague and an earthquake and Superman just forgetting that he cares about innocent people crying out in their suffering within earshot of him". ...I was not a fan of that extended storyline.

What I want to do, and I would like to know how crazy this is, is to recruit players for a Dresden Files game set in a genre-adapted reflection of Gotham City, send them each the PDF of "Night In Gotham", and actually have them do nine pages of reading.

Then, after they've each had a chance to read the nine pages of relevant content, I'd set up an email group to discuss what elements jumped out at everyone, and we'd start working up the Themes and Threats and Locations and Faces of our version of Gotham (which I'd call by the "historical" name of Fort Adolphus in order to have the reminder that they're on Harry Dresden's world rather than Superman's).

But, this is dependent on players being willing to do nine pages of reading before they could join the game.

Just nine pages.

How crazy am I for even hoping that my prospective players will be willing to undertake such an effort?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I've done something similar twice, for 2 campaigns set in the same game world but 2 completely different groups. In each case, I first pitched the campaign theme, then prepped the background world setting document.

The first group bought in 100%, read the reference material, and we went on to play a couple years in the best campaign I ever ran. The only reason the game died is I had to move to a different city.

The second group didn't- some barely read any of it at all- and the campaign died in just a few months. At that point, one guy even expressed amazement at the fact that there was life on the Moon and on Mars- first pages of the documents stuff.

So, IME, how it plays out will depend on how much your players delve into the ideas presented in the pitch.

 

[Blue]

This sounds petty awesome! I don't think players would balk at reading the nine pages, especially with the preface it's to set a baseline so you can all create the setting together.

 

[OGIHR]

‎In my mind, the process for City Creation is the most interesting part of the Dresden Files RPG. Assuming the players are willing to invest more cognitive effort than "I rolled the dice, did I win yet?", it ensures that everyone starts the game on the same page, and irons out any conflicting expectations before the PCs are even created. 

And because any half-decent research effort (such as reading the detailed writeup of Chicago in the "Our World" supplement book) will turn up literally dozens of cool details about a city for the gaming group to choose from in mapping out the Themes and Threats and Locations worth setting stories in, by the time two different groups have made their respective characters off the same research material, they'll almost certainly have come up with very different games about very different issues. 

Cases in point: Batman and the Joker. The two iconic pillars of the Detective Comics franchise. How best to translate them into Dresdenverse reflections?

Bat imagery is pretty thoroughly associated with the Red Court, so a case could certainly be made for redacting the heroic "Bat-Family" entirely, and having the Wayne Enterprises fortune be a front for the Red Court. And this would certainly work for groups who want more Dresden-y heroes, assuming of course that one is willing to let slide the canon statement that Bianca St. Claire's little noble court was a singular beachhead furthest from the Red Court's ancestral domains, while Gotham has always been on the Atlantic coast. 

On the other hand, one who remembers the late 1980s stories could easily draw on elements from "The Cult" and "Shaman", and have The Man Who Rides The Night as a wielder of Sponsored Magic (or perhaps an Item Of Power), serving a powerful bat-like entity from the Nevernever with a personal agenda of seeing that evildoers never escape justice. 

And on the third hand, you could always go with the Pure Mortal interpretation of Batman as a member of the Justice League, but I'd be very wary of a Pure Mortal trying to take on Ghouls (let alone anything heavier) in direct combat. Plus I just see Thaumaturgy as the best game-mechanics approach to Batman's legendary aptitude at being prepared for anything.

Then there's the Joker. You could make him a Pure Mortal with combat / criminal skills on par with Marcone (and some Stunts specifically to model his penchant for biochemical weaponry), but given that his primary narrative facet is that he's the foe who tests Batman's capabilities and resources to their utmost limits, I think that would short-change him. 

Thinking back to the classic story "The Laughing Fish" (which was adapted for Bruce Timm's animated series to incorporate elements from the much scarier story "The Joker's Five-Way Revenge"), the Joker is at his most effective when he's working behind the scenes to create threats that defy rational solutions. Which pretty much calls out for making him a Sorcerer with multiple Lawbreaker Stunts (murder, mindbending, and involuntary transformation all leaping to mind). 

But given the spectacularly destructive approach to monster-fighting which characterizes The Dresden Files, I worry about potential First Law violations in the heroes fighting full-out to defeat him. And even if they avoid lethal evocations, a shotgun to the face of an unconscious sorcerer still yields a dead villain and the loss of future stories. 

That's why my favorite approach to Dresden-ing the Joker would be to make him not a human but a being of the Nevernever, summoned by a cult based out of Arkham Asylum (with Dr Harleen Quinzel as a clued-in mortal using sacrificial Consequences rather than spellcasting powers to generate the Shifts of power for the summoning ritual she found in the journals left behind by the Asylum's original founder; who had his own cell down in the basement with a ritual circle in it, back in the DC Heroes game's dedicated "Magic Sourcebook"). 

That way, the Joker's legendary immunity from permanent consequence would be translated to the tabletop, as "killing" him would just send him back home until the next summoning could be enacted. 

There; multiple interpretations for how to translate the Batman and the Joker into a Dresden Files game. And the same applies for any other element of the source material which might come up in any group's researching of their chosen city. 

That's why I care so much about the prospective players being willing to read and discuss the nine pages of text I have on hand.

Crazy, huh?

 

[Arilyn]

Not crazy! Find the right players, and you are going to have a real cool campaign on your hands. Wish I lived near you. I would definitely love your ideas.

 

[OGIHR]

Not crazy! Find the right players, and you are going to have a real cool campaign on your hands. Wish I lived near you. I would definitely love your ideas.

Well, I'm entirely willing to run games online, using Roll20 on my desktop for the character sheets and playspace and dice mechanics, while running Google Hangouts on my laptop for voice conferencing. 

So, if you're interested, message me privately, and I'll gladly email you the PDF of "Night in Gotham", so that brainstorming can commence. 

I won't actually be in a position to run a game again until after I get out of my current job (one way or the other), but anyone who is willing to work with me to create a backdrop that we can all thoroughly enjoy is welcome to give it a shot. 

Once I have a different job and know how my work schedule impacts my possibilities for game scheduling. ‎

 

[Arilyn]

Well, I'm entirely willing to run games online, using Roll20 on my desktop for the character sheets and playspace and dice mechanics, while running Google Hangouts on my laptop for voice conferencing. 

So, if you're interested, message me privately, and I'll gladly email you the PDF of "Night in Gotham", so that brainstorming can commence. 

I won't actually be in a position to run a game again until after I get out of my current job (one way or the other), but anyone who is willing to work with me to create a backdrop that we can all thoroughly enjoy is welcome to give it a shot. 

Once I have a different job and know how my work schedule impacts my possibilities for game scheduling. ‎

Thanks for offer, but not a fan of playing online. I need a table, the feel of real dice, and bodies in same room!

 

[Wednesday Boy]

Very cool idea! If you get a group of new players together I would ask them how they feel about reading nine pages for homework. If they're cool with it, give them the reading assignment. If they're not, proceed anyway and let the players rely on their individual concepts about Gotham City to build it. This might give you a Gotham that veers away from the Gotham that Commissioner Gordon describes in your nine page read-ahead but in exchange you'll get a Gotham that incorporates elements that the players are interested in.

Although the players have a hand in creating Gotham for the game, you can still put boundaries and limits on it. If you don't want a vibrant, neon Gotham like in the Joel Schumacher Batman movies, (gently) veto those elements and have the players refocus on other versions.

 

[Wednesday Boy]

‎And on the third hand, you could always go with the Pure Mortal interpretation of Batman as a member of the Justice League, but I'd be very wary of a Pure Mortal trying to take on Ghouls (let alone anything heavier) in direct combat. Plus I just see Thaumaturgy as the best game-mechanics approach to Batman's legendary aptitude at being prepared for anything.

For what it's worth my friends and I had a Fate campaign featuring the homebrewed sidekicks of heroes from Sentinels of the Multiverse (think Young Justice in the Sentinels setting). Two mortal characters had aspects that captured Batman's being-prepared-for-anthingness. The Robinish character had "I have that in my utility belt." and the Lex Luthor-like character had "I'm always two steps ahead." The aspects were a simple, elegant way to capture the preparedness feel and neither were overused or gamebreaking.

‎But given the spectacularly destructive approach to monster-fighting which characterizes The Dresden Files, I worry about potential First Law violations in the heroes fighting full-out to defeat him. And even if they avoid lethal evocations, a shotgun to the face of an unconscious sorcerer still yields a dead villain and the loss of future stories.

I understand a non-lethal shotgun blast or fireball may not mesh with the believability for some players or GMs but one thing to consider is in Fate if your attack fills up their stress boxes, you get to describe how they're taken out. So a blast from an evocation spell or a shotgun don't have to be lethal, unless you want them to be.

 

[OGIHR]

Very cool idea! If you get a group of new players together I would ask them how they feel about reading nine pages for homework. If they're cool with it, give them the reading assignment. If they're not, proceed anyway and let the players rely on their individual concepts about Gotham City to build it. This might give you a Gotham that veers away from the Gotham that Commissioner Gordon describes in your nine page read-ahead but in exchange you'll get a Gotham that incorporates elements that the players are interested in.

Although the players have a hand in creating Gotham for the game, you can still put boundaries and limits on it. If you don't want a vibrant, neon Gotham like in the Joel Schumacher Batman movies, (gently) veto those elements and have the players refocus on other versions.

My fear is that I could get one player who (like myself) can recognize at a glance either a Jim Aparo or a Norm Breyfogle drawing of Batman, one player who only knows the Schumacher version, and one who only knows the Adam West version. Without a common frame of reference, I fear I'll be right back where I was last month, trying to run a horror game while one of my players insisted on not changing his in-text-chat display name from "I AM THE GOD OF WAR NONE SHALL DEFY ME". And just imagine trying to maintain a horror mood when the bottom of the chat window reads "I AM THE GOD OF WAR NONE SHALL DEFY ME is typing..." Hopefully you can see why I pulled the plug on the Curse of Strahd campaign.

For what it's worth my friends and I had a Fate campaign featuring the homebrewed sidekicks of heroes from Sentinels of the Multiverse (think Young Justice in the Sentinels setting). Two mortal characters had aspects that captured Batman's being-prepared-for-anthingness. The Robinish character had "I have that in my utility belt." and the Lex Luthor-like character had "I'm always two steps ahead." The aspects were a simple, elegant way to capture the preparedness feel and neither were overused or gamebreaking.

Aspects are a wonderful tool for adding capabilities into the game without filling dozens of pages with selectable special rules, but being able to use them frequently relies on an abundant supply of Fate Points, and in my experience the players of super-capable characters are far less eager to take Compels to provide themselves with that supply. But that might just be the players I've done the Dresden Files RPG with in the past.

I understand a non-lethal shotgun blast or fireball may not mesh with the believability for some players or GMs but one thing to consider is in Fate if your attack fills up their stress boxes, you get to describe how they're taken out. So a blast from an evocation spell or a shotgun don't have to be lethal, unless you want them to be.

Oh yes, the freedom to choose whether or not your attacks inflict lethal force at the moment of Taking Out an opponent is a wonderful feature of the game. And I could have been more clear about this, but I was picturing a multiplayer scenario, where the Wizard character takes the First Law very seriously and refuses to kill (thus non-lethal evocations), while a Kincaid-style monster hunter avoids that problem by using purely non-magical means for killing human foes. Which still yields a dead villain and a loss of potential future stories. And it is of course the player's rightful choice for whether or not his character solves his supernatural-threat-to-the-public problems that way.

However, since one of the Joker's two main narrative attributes is his exemption from permanent consequence, I figured that reflecting him as a demon from the Nevernever was the best solution here.

Sense making?