Tell me of Rules-light D20

[madelf]

I'm intrigued by some of the extremely rules-light OGL/D20 systems cropping up. I'm hoping someone can tell me a little about them. To be clear, I'm talking about things like Simple20, Quick20, etc - something like True20 is not, to me, particularly rules light (I'd consider it more rules-tolerable) D&D and typical D20 very much isn't for me, but one of these stripped down versions just might be. I figure it's worth getting some input on.

What are they? (I know of a couple, but there may be others).

Are there any you'd recommend as being the best, and if so, why do you feel that it is?

What are the major differences between them?

How compatible with standard d20 products are they? Can I use a standard D&D setting, adventure, NPC, or monster without major conversion? Are some more compatible than others, and if so, which ones are most compatible?

To fill you in on what I'm looking for...
I want a rules-light system that I can build a campaign around. I want to be able to pull material from fantasy, western, pulp and steampunk source books and be able to use it without re-inventing the wheel. I'll likely tinker with some rules to suit myself, regardless, but I want something solid and versital to build from - something that isn't so far from the available material that I have to build everything from scratch to run a game.



Thanks, in advance.

 

[jdrakeh]

I can think of Quick20, Simple20, EZ20, Microlite20, Perfect20, Core Elements (revised), Core Elements (Toolbox Edition), The Basic Fantasy RPG, and. . . ah. . . I'm certain that there are other I'm forgetting, but it's 1:30 AM here

Of the three that I've designed (one of which is currently still being designed), EZ20 is the easiest to use with standard d20 material. There is conversion (as detailed in a thread here) but since it's all description-based, it's dirt simple. Simple20 is the furthest from standard d20. There is a conversion guide, but it's akin to True20 in that conversions require some work. Finally, Core Elements (Revised) is somewhere in the middle -- you can do the coneversions is your head, but it takes a bit of getting used to.

I'm still working to better integrate EZ20 with standard d20. The next revision will take it miles away from its current state of existence -- it will retain the character generation portion of the document and most of the combat, but introduce streamlined AoOs in the vein of Iron Heroes and a more cohesive set of rules for awarding experience. Likewise, look for specific rules on trait packages (to simulate races, classes, etc). Progress is slow because of my day job, but I am working on it

 

[eyebeams]

I'm intrigued by some of the extremely rules-light OGL/D20 systems cropping up. I'm hoping someone can tell me a little about them. To be clear, I'm talking about things like Simple20, Quick20, etc - something like True20 is not, to me, particularly rules light (I'd consider it more rules-tolerable) D&D and typical D20 very much isn't for me, but one of these stripped down versions just might be. I figure it's worth getting some input on.

What are they? (I know of a couple, but there may be others).

Quick20 (currently in an expanded, collected edition called "Advanced" Quick20, though it isn't really advanced) is in my sig. I can tell you all about it. The whole kit and kaboodle in that edition is about 6 bucks, but it collects a lot of options. The basic game is still around, for just under 3 bucks, and is part of a bunch of inexpensive bundles.

I designed Quick20 for my own games. I've used it for fantasy, supers and modern gaming. It's nice and fast and easy to create characters for, but I'll be honest; it's not just stripped down d20. Its system of bonuses scales with d20 nicely, though, and as long as you can render things down to those bonuses conversion moves along nicely.

Beyond my own system, Microlite20 is probably the one that best emulates "lighter than light" D&D-style gaming. Perfect20 and others each have their own particular directions and innovations.

Are there any you'd recommend as being the best, and if so, why do you feel that it is?

It depends on what you want. If you want straight D&D conversion, Microlite20 is hands down the best system. Most of the games are pretty good. To toot my own horn, with Quick20 you get ongoing support, since it's a popular line, and a number of rules options you won't get elsewhere, like mooks, narrative/roleplaying bonus mechanics and special tweaks for high action.

How compatible with standard d20 products are they? Can I use a standard D&D setting, adventure, NPC, or monster without major conversion? Are some more compatible than others, and if so, which ones are most compatible?

As I said, my own game is based purely on bonus benchmarks. That means that, minus equipment, a BAB score in d20 eyeballs nicely with a Might attack bonus at comparable levels. Other than that, my priority was a system that works for me, and I like winging it and creating my own material.

To fill you in on what I'm looking for...
I want a rules-light system that I can build a campaign around. I want to be able to pull material from fantasy, western, pulp and steampunk source books and be able to use it without re-inventing the wheel. I'll likely tinker with some rules to suit myself, regardless, but I want something solid and versital to build from - something that isn't so far from the available material that I have to build everything from scratch to run a game.

Thanks, in advance.

Then I'd say go with Microlite20. As I said, if you can render things down to templated bonuses, Quick20 will serve you well, but I vastly prefer it for games where I have to make up a monster in 30 seconds or so. You might *also* like that approach and a largely unified and GM-arbitrated game system, so I hope my recommendation of a system *other* than my own doesn't scare you away completely

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

I can think of Quick20, Simple20, EZ20, Microlite20, Perfect20, Core Elements (revised), Core Elements (Toolbox Edition), The Basic Fantasy RPG, and. . . ah. . . I'm certain that there are other I'm forgetting, but it's 1:30 AM here

Sounds like he's looking for something more general-use, and less tied to fantasy than BFRPG or C&C (although I think there's a StarSIEGE sci-fi variant in the works). I'm not familiar with many of the other lite d20-based OGL games, but what I've seen of Microlite20 looks like it might be a good fit.

Personally, I think I'd look to Savage Worlds to satifsy the need for light and multi-genre, but that's not d20-based.

 

[madelf]

Thanks folks. That narrows things down a bit.

Sounds like I'll need to take a look at Microlite20 for sure.
And that descriptive concept for EZ20 sounds pretty interesting too, I could see that making conversion from other stuff (maybe even non-d20?) pretty easy.

eyebeams:
Does your Quick20 Advanced have a conversion guideline, for using d20 source stuff? Some of the things you're describing sound intriguing, but I don't have enough grasp of d20 to "render things down to templated bonuses" without a walk-through on how to do it (Honestly I haven't messed with d20 at all yet).

Basically where I'm at is... I like the idea of being able to grab readily available stuff to stick in my game, and D20 has the most readily available stuff. But I very much don't want to have to learn all the ins and outs of the full d20 system to use the smaller ruleset, so if I can't use d20 material without doing so then I'd probably be better off with another system entirely.

And yes, as Philotomy Jurament said... I'm looking for something that can cross genres. I'm looking to do a fantasy/modern(ish) blend in a 19th century-esque setting.

 

[jdrakeh]

And that descriptive concept for EZ20 sounds pretty interesting too, I could see that making conversion from other stuff (maybe even non-d20?) pretty easy.

Thanks for giving it a look. And, yes, it makes conversion from all kinds of systems easy (check out Kumquat Tattoo when you're at my site -- it's a Risus supplement with notes for conversion to EZ20).

 

[eyebeams]

eyebeams:
Does your Quick20 Advanced have a conversion guideline, for using d20 source stuff? Some of the things you're describing sound intriguing, but I don't have enough grasp of d20 to "render things down to templated bonuses" without a walk-through on how to do it (Honestly I haven't messed with d20 at all yet).

It's WAY simpler than it sounds. When it comes to performing a given task, use the final modified bonus before applying equipment. Ignore everything else unless it provides a situational bonus.

That's what you'd use for Quick20. Basically, Quick20 uses 4 stats:

Fortitude=Fort and damage saves (Quick20 uses damage saves, though they aren't the same as True20's).
Reflex=Ref save, dodging attacks and ranged BAB
Will =all mental scores, Will saves.
Might=Strength and close combat BAB

This may seem odd, but there's more to it, bound up in the way level advances work.

If you want firmer conversion guidelines, do this:

Fortitude: d20 Modified Fort save.
Reflex: d20 Average of BAB and Ref save, modified by Dex.
Will: d20 modified Will save.
Might: d20 BAB, modified by Strength.

Damage generally converts to damage roll average +1 or so.

Hope this helps.

 

[madelf]

Hope this helps.

Indeed. Sounds pretty straightforward.

Thanks.