Template Fairness (My players please stay out!!!)

SolidSnake

First Post
I was just wondering what all of you guys thought of the following template (essentially a half-vampire template applied to the character at creation). You will be able to note many references to weakness against Heironeous' followers; this is intentional and has a long backstory if anyone cares to hear about it. My question is wondering if it is too powerful/weak for an LA of +2

AC: The base creature’s natural armor improves by +4.

Attacks: Retains all of the attacks of the base creature and also gains a slam attack.

Damage: If the base creature does not have this attack form, use the damage value on the table below. If it does, use the greater damage of the two.
Size Damage
Tiny 1d2
Small 1d3
Medium 1d4
Large 1d6
Huge 1d8
Gargantuan 2d6
Colossal 2d8


Special Attacks: Saves have a DC of 10 + 1/2 HD + charisma modifier unless noted otherwise.
Blood Drain (Ex): Can suck blood from a victim with its fangs by making a successful grapple check. If it pins the foe, it drains blood, inflicting 1d3 points of temporary constitution damage each round the pin is maintained.

Charm (Su): Can summon some of the long lost charm of the Vampire ancestors it has and focus a gaze attack that duplicates the spell Charm Person as cast by a 5th level Sorcerer. Can use this attack as many times per day as their charisma modifier +3. The ability has a range of 30 feet.

Special Qualities:
Damage Reduction (Su): 5/silver or blessed by Heironious

Resistance (Su): cold and electricity resistance of 5

Fast Healing (Su): heals 1 hit point per minute so long it has one hit point. It is not destroyed when it reaches 0 hit points, but still incurs all penalties as a dying creature until killed when it reaches –10 hit points.

Vision: Darkvision 60 feet

Partial Undead (Ex): As a partial undead it gets a +2 bonus on all saves that involve mind-influencing effects, poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, and disease. It has a 50% chance to take normal damage on a critical hit/sneak attack and not be killed by death from massive damage each time it happens. It only takes half damage from subdual attacks and gets a +4 on saves involving energy drain and ability drain.

Extended Life: The life span increases by 50 percent of its base creature’s maximum age. They show very little signs of aging even when venerable. They do no not receive any penalties of aging until they are venerable, but receive all of the bonuses until and through that point.

Detection: Will detect as Undead w/ an aura that is ½ HD

Abilities: Increase from the base creature as follows: Strength +4, Dexterity +4, Constitution +2 and Charisma +2.

Skills: Dhamphirs get a +4 bonus to bluff, climb, hide, listen, move silently, and spot.

Feats: Gains Improved Initiative, assuming the base creature meets the prerequisites and does not already have the feats.

Challenge Rating: As base creature +2

Weaknesses-
The Thirst: DC 15 Will save every day (Will save goes up by 1 everyday you make it until you fail) or must drain blood before sunrise of next day lest he take -1 morale penalty on attacks checks and saves, penalty increase by an additional -1 each additional day the Dhampir goes without blood. As soon as 1 rd of blood drain occurs, all penalties are expunged

Damned: Any Priest of Heironeous able to turn half of creature's HD imposes -4 to attacks, saves, skill checks and ability checks for 10 rounds or until the turner attacks the creature. If turn would destroy undead it stuns creature for 2d4 rounds (Other Priests: If turn creature’s HD, you can impose -4 to attacks/saves/skill/ability checks; If you can turn double HD of creature, you stun creature for 2d4 rounds).
Also, any Dhampir touching a sacred relic of Heironeous automatically takes 2d6 damage/rd and is Slowed while holding the object + 1d4 rounds afterwards. Holy water blessed by Heironeous that scores direct hit on the creature deals 1d4 points of damage.

Sunlight: Dazzled in bright sunlight or within radius of Daylight spell

Stakes: Any sharp object blessed by a good pantheon driven through its heart disorients it severely (basically, this is a coupe de grace on helpless status). The creature suffers a –4 to attack and damage and can only move at half of its base speed. Also, it can only take partial actions and loses its damage reduction while the stake is in. If it is a critical hit then it dies just as any other creature would if struck in the heart. The creature may take a full-round action to remove the stake from the heart, but incurs all attacks of opportunity necessary and takes the same amount of damage again it did when originally put in. This could effectively kill him. A successful Heal check (DC 20) can be made to reduce the damage by half and a DC 25 to reduce it by full.

What do you guys think?
 

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Half-Vampyre

I would suggest using the Savage Progressions version by Sean Rynolds, posted on the WOTC pages. These would allow the players to 'give in to the dark side', becoming true vampires, or be converted and return to humanity.

I don't have my stuff with me, but this looks almost as powerful as a full vampire, an +8 template. I would definately relook at the amount of Stat/skill boosts. A 1st level Rogue could have a potential +12 on a Move Silently check... Ouch!

JMHO
 

Primitive Screwhead said:
I would suggest using the Savage Progressions version by Sean Rynolds, posted on the WOTC pages. These would allow the players to 'give in to the dark side', becoming true vampires, or be converted and return to humanity.

I don't have my stuff with me, but this looks almost as powerful as a full vampire, an +8 template. I would definately relook at the amount of Stat/skill boosts. A 1st level Rogue could have a potential +12 on a Move Silently check... Ouch!

JMHO

What do you suggest? More of a +2 str/dex/cha and leave the skills as they are? I really don't know how to balance effectively at these things as I have very little experience with using templates:)
 

No problem then, you could just use the Half-Vampire from Dragon Mag #313 "Deathtouched Races", though it has a LA +4. It has some pretty neat special qualities such as Blood Hunger, DR 5/silver, Sense Vampires, etc. I'd definately recommend checking it out.
 

Liquidsabre said:
No problem then, you could just use the Half-Vampire from Dragon Mag #313 "Deathtouched Races", though it has a LA +4. It has some pretty neat special qualities such as Blood Hunger, DR 5/silver, Sense Vampires, etc. I'd definately recommend checking it out.

Yeah, I checked it out and loosely based the template I made on it. My problem is that I'm trying to reasonably get the LA down to +2 without cutting too much of the flavor from the template. Any suggestions?
 

Hmm, well along the same lines as has already been suggested just split the template into 4 levels:

1st - +2 Str, Cold Resistance 5, Light Sensitivity
2nd - +2 Dex, Immunities, Improved Initiative, Sense Vampires
3rd - +4 Bluff, Hide, Listen, Move Silent, and Spot, Charm Person, Electricity Resistance 5, Blood Drain, Blood Hunger.
4th - +2 Cha, DR 5/Silver, Spider Climb

is what I'd suggest at-a-glance. I believe Savage Species does have suggestions on how to go about spliting up a template. So in your particular case just have them possess 2 levels of this template and essentially you've got yourself a balanced +2 LA half-vampire.

edit- oops, almost forgot the special attacks.
 
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Liquidsabre said:
Hmm, well along the same lines as has already been suggested just split the template into 4 levels:

1st - +2 Str, Cold Resistance 5, Light Sensitivity
2nd - +2 Dex, Immunities, Improved Initiative, Sense Vampires
3rd - +4 Bluff, Hide, Listen, Move Silent, and Spot, Charm Person, Electricity Resistance 5, Blood Drain, Blood Hunger.
4th - +2 Cha, DR 5/Silver, Spider Climb

is what I'd suggest at-a-glance. I believe Savage Species does have suggestions on how to go about spliting up a template. So in your particular case just have them possess 2 levels of this template and essentially you've got yourself a balanced +2 LA half-vampire.

edit- oops, almost forgot the special attacks.

So what do you think of this?:
1st - +2 Str, Cold Resistance 5, Light Sensitivity, Slam attack, Extended Life, +4 Natural Armor

2nd - +2 Dex, Immunities, Improved Initiative, Darkvision 60', Damned, Detection

3rd - +4 Skills, Charm Person, Electricity Resistance 5, Blood Drain, Thirst

4th - +2 Cha, DR 5/Silver, Fast Healing, Stake Vulnerability
 

Definately interesting, but a more powerful version that would likely require a higher LA. Either you could add more levels or start at a base +2 LA or some other customization (+2 LA at 1st and 3rd levels instead of just +1).

at 1st you add Slam Attack (level drain ability), extended life, AND +4 NA (alot for just 1st), at 2nd you added darkvision, though Damned sounds like an interesting balancing trait (not sure what it is though). 3rd looks the same, and 4th you added fast healing (but how much? plus this is a VERY powerful ability for a PC to possess) and stake vulnerability sounds like a fair attempt at balancing. Overall, this is still a powered-up version of the half-vampire template and would start at a base +6 LA I'd wager (somewhere between the half-vamp and full-vamp). Though it might just be better to go Vampire template levels instead. Best to compare what you got with the full-vamp template levels and see how they compare to each other power-wise.

After playing/running for a while you'll find that you get a better feel for the balance issues in the game, so no worries. Best of luck!
 
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Liquidsabre said:
Definately interesting, but a more powerful version that would likely require a higher LA. Either you could add more levels or start at a base +2 LA or some other customization (+2 LA at 1st and 3rd levels instead of just +1).

at 1st you add Slam Attack (level drain ability), extended life, AND +4 NA (alot for just 1st), at 2nd you added darkvision, though Damned sounds like an interesting balancing trait (not sure what it is though). 3rd looks the same, and 4th you added fast healing (but how much? plus this is a VERY powerful ability for a PC to possess) and stake vulnerability sounds like a fair attempt at balancing. Overall, this is still a powered-up version of the half-vampire template and would start at a base +6 LA I'd wager (somewhere between the half-vamp and full-vamp). Though it might just be better to go Vampire template levels instead. Best to compare what you got with the full-vamp template levels and see how they compare to each other power-wise.

After playing/running for a while you'll find that you get a better feel for the balance issues in the game, so no worries. Best of luck!

Whoops, I'm sorry I didn't explain everything:) Yeah, from your perception it must seem like this is ridiculous. The explanation to these strange sounding abilities are in my first post. Slam Attack has no energy draining properties, it is a simple unarmed attack that does not incur an AoO. Extended Life just increases the base creatures max by 50% and makes it more difficult for him/her to get into the Venerable category (I really dont know many people that get this far, but you never know). Damned makes the character vulnerable to turning (priests give the creature -4 across the board if they successfully turn them and even stun them for a few rounds if they succeed really well). My Fast Healing was really toned down: heals 1 hit point per minute so long it has one hit point; it is not destroyed when it reaches 0 hit points, but still incurs all penalties as a dying creature until killed when it reaches –10 hit points.

I was going to apply the +2 LA at first level despite not giving them the whole ball of wax in terms of powers until the completed 4th level. Also, I will drop the NA to +2. Does this sound more sane?:)
 

Ok, I really can't leave this alone and I have no life today. Try this on for size!!! :D

0th/1st (+0 LA) - +2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, Cold/Electricity Resistance 2, Light Sensitivity, Darkvision 60’, +1 Skills
2nd - (+1 LA) +2 Charisma, Improved Initiative, Immunities, +2 Skills, +2 NA, Cold/Electricity Resistance 5, Damned
3rd - (+1 LA) +4 Skills, Charm Person, , Blood Drain, Thirst, DR 5/Silver, +4 NA, Stake Vulnerability
 

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