Template/Race, adding cha to AC

[Rystil Arden]

To the Monk and Battledancer folks--the Nymph racial ability works with or without armour. Now, I'm not saying that it is worth 2 LA on its own (that's why my race also gives out other bonuses), but conversely, it would be a mistake to give this out along with no other goodies in an LA +1 race.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I read your analysis. I just don't agree with it. By your own logic, the +4 Con is facing Immunity to Sleep, +2 vs. Enchantments and four Martial Weapon Proficiencies, plus the fact that elves need only 4 hours of rest per night (not a small advantage, and I just recalled it now). I'd be torn between making a hobgoblin or an elf. Which means that, to me, they're balanced.

The four martial weapon proficiencies are nearly useless to any character. Just about the only classes that would conceivably prefer them are battle-Clerics, who have plenty of HP. Martial classes get them already, Wizards have little use for them and desperately need HP, and Rogues could use them, but they always die due to being forced to melee at low HP to get in Sneak Attacks, so they need the Con much much more. Immunity to Sleep is an effect that rarely comes up and becomes completely useless at high levels when there aren't any Sleep effects that work. The +2 to enchantment saves is nice, but nowhere near as useful as the Con--heck, if we're playing Point Buy, that +4 Con could let me afford 4 more points in Wisdom to get +2 to all Will saves.

 

[Question]

Deflection costs bonus squared x 2000, insight costs bonus squared x 2500.

 

[Klaus]

The four martial weapon proficiencies are nearly useless to any character. Just about the only classes that would conceivably prefer them are battle-Clerics, who have plenty of HP. Martial classes get them already, Wizards have little use for them and desperately need HP, and Rogues could use them, but they always die due to being forced to melee at low HP to get in Sneak Attacks, so they need the Con much much more. Immunity to Sleep is an effect that rarely comes up and becomes completely useless at high levels when there aren't any Sleep effects that work. The +2 to enchantment saves is nice, but nowhere near as useful as the Con--heck, if we're playing Point Buy, that +4 Con could let me afford 4 more points in Wisdom to get +2 to all Will saves.

Elf rogues, wizards, clerics, druids, sorcerers and monks would all benefit from taking the longbow (the best ranged weapon available), and those with a melee orientation would benefit from taking the longsword. These two are no-brainer weapons. The longbow deals as much damage as a 1st-level spell, and is faster to reload than a crossbow, giving wizards and sorcerers a clear advantage.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Rogues need the Con much much more than the weapons, and they get the most mileage from the hobbo skill bonus to boot. If they want the martial weapons, they can get them and a feat by dipping into Fighter 1 level (remember Fighter is hobgoblin's favoured class). The elf cannot.

Wizards and Sorcerers indeed get a small gain from the new ranged weapon if they are going to be constantly out of spells. But this disappears completely at high levels, and the Con hit is tremendous. What do you call a low-level elf wizard? Dead. If using point-buy, the hobgoblin's Con bonus will likely even allow the Wizard to hit comfortable Con and Dex and have enough points left to pump plenty of extra Int if he doesn't mind dumping the less-useful stats (same with Cha for sorcs).

Clerics, I agree with you as I said before--it could be useful, but Clerics get perhaps the least use from the elf's Dex bonus and +2 enchantment saves.

Druids, not really. They oddly get a few out-of-place good martial weapons that can hold them over already, and they are likely to start Wildshaping anyway and render both race choices irrelevant. If they don't Wildshape, they are going to feel that Con pain, though.

Monks, like Rogues, are going to die in the front line with an Elf's Con. Also, except at the barest minimum levels, the monk's fists win out over the sword anyway.

The hobgoblin is the clear winner in every case. Good enough to be LA +1? No. They are not. A point in which I agree with you that I want to reemphasise.