Temple of Elemental Evil - expectations

[Bullgrit]

Several people, in many discussions, have mentioned how the Temple of Elemental Evil was a disappointment. Especially after waiting so many years after The Village of Hommlet.

What were you expecting for ToEE? What would have made it not a disappointment?

Bullgrit

 

[Grimstaff]

I was most definitely not disappointed with ToEE, as a two-time player and one-time DM. All three times, it held new surprises and challenges.

Who is this expressing disappointment in this adventure?

 

[Holy Bovine]

I guess for me it was the fact that it turned into a giant dungeon crawl. After the awesome that was T1 and the village of Hommlet I was expecting something major for T2-4. Instead it became the longest dungeon crawl I had ever been in. It got really boring after the 8th or 9th foray in and we gave it up for greener pastures. *shrug* I hold no real animosity towards it but wouldn't really want to go through it again.

 

[Derulbaskul]

In no particular order:

1. The module was about five years late. Notwithstanding that, it wasn't even finished. It was up to the DM to populate the elemental nodes. I would have preferred that EGG (or whoever the author was that was working from his rough notes) had put some effort into making these into coherent sites rather than the cheap "it's over to you, DM"-tactic that was employed in order to rush this into publication.

2. I would have thought that five years was long enough to make the clerics feel other than generic. I fully expected to see a water cleric, frex, with some water-based spells to differentiate him from the, frex, earth cleric. (Again, I know a DM can change the flavour etc... but sometimes I actually buy an adventure so that the work is done for me.)

3. Five years to design a giant dungeon crawl of seemingly randomly generated monsters?

In short, it lack any sense of coherency and simply didn't do justice to its theme. It also destroyed AD&D for one of my groups: giant dungeons just didn't (and don't) work for us.

It would have been better written up as five separate sites: one for each of the elements plus a main temple in the centre and wilderness adventures in-between. Actually, it would have been better if it had been finished on time and not slapped together at the last minute to try and get sales from the EGG name.

 

[PeelSeel2]

It was great! I DM'd it in college. One of the best of the age.

 

[Lancelot]

I wouldn't call it a disappointment, per se, but nor do I think it's a particularly good module.

Things I like about ToEE

• Four (or five, counting the Greater Temple) rival Temple factions.
• "Hidden Areas" and sub-quests that can only be found by thorough exploration, rather than being mandatory requirements to get through the dungeon.
• The concept of the elemental nodes.
• The concept of a trapped demonlord. And Lady Z herself was quite unusual for a demonlord (also, not such an easy-beat as 66hp Lolth from the GDQ series).
• Thrommel and Fragarach.
• The Golden Skull and the gems; in the grand tradition of multi-part artifacts like the Rod of Seven Parts.
• The free-form nature of the module. Some might criticize that it lacked a driving story and climax, but I kinda liked that the DM could decide if the climax of the module was: 1) killing Hedrack; 2) assembling and destroying the Golden Skull; 3) rescuing Thrommel; 4) destroying (or freeing!) Zuggtmoy; 5) something else entirely.

Things I don't like about ToEE

• The maps all like they've been generated using the random generation method from the 1e DMG. I mean, seriously... each level of the dungeon fits exactly within a single page, filling up almost all of the "white space", and there are a host of diagonal corridors and rhombus/triangle/diamond-shaped rooms?
• The NPCs and their motivations are weak. I'd like to read more about Falrinth and Hedrack and others. Instead, they're just generic Bad Guys. Lareth was a more compelling character: he was the favored of Lolth, the dark hope of Chaotic Evil, and he was a bad guy with a title "The Beautiful". That's kinda interesting and unique.
• It's a huge dungeon crawl, and surprisingly generic. Playing through the computer RPG adaption gives you a better sense for how much of a crawl it really is. Every other room seems to have 2 dozen bugbears, gnolls or bandits in it. The truly imaginative areas were few and far between. Levels 1, 2 and 4 were extremely repetitive and mundane. Level 3 showcased some interesting and unusual monsters.
• The elemental nodes, while interesting in concept, were poorly detailed. These could have been the high point of the adventure: some unusual monsters and environmental conditions that were wildly different from "It's a 20x40 room with 16 bugbears... again". Instead, the nodes are largely left to the DM to outline... and their maps are very plain.

So, in summary, some great ideas and backstory... but not enough fine detail or encounter variety to maintain interest for the length of the module. And some really terrible maps.

 

[MerricB]

[*]The maps all like they've been generated using the random generation method from the 1e DMG. I mean, seriously... each level of the dungeon fits exactly within a single page, filling up almost all of the "white space", and there are a host of diagonal corridors and rhombus/triangle/diamond-shaped rooms?

I've got a feeling that they were generated that way. I seem to remember either Rob Kuntz or Gary Gygax discussing the campaign at one point (which was a area for beginning players/characters)... Robilar eventually came by and wrecked the temple and released Zuggtmoy.

I can't find a reference though. If Allan (grodog) wanders by, he can probably elucidate further.

Cheers!

 

[Evilhalfling]

I remember detailing out at least 3 of the 4 Nodes. and having a great time.
It may have been my intro to homebrewing.
I loved reading the adventure.

The one party used it with, got beaten up by the bandits in the tower, and never returned. (campaign/school year ended)

When I played RttTEE the PCs got all the way to the second temple, then we all got bored and so.. it exploded.

 

[Ed_Laprade]

I guess for me it was the fact that it turned into a giant dungeon crawl. After the awesome that was T1 and the village of Hommlet I was expecting something major for T2-4. Instead it became the longest dungeon crawl I had ever been in. It got really boring after the 8th or 9th foray in and we gave it up for greener pastures. *shrug* I hold no real animosity towards it but wouldn't really want to go through it again.

This. When the GM showed us the pic of the entrance I was expecting the awesome! But got a grinding slugfest instead. And that's on two or three tries.

 

[Ahnirades]

This. When the GM showed us the pic of the entrance I was expecting the awesome! But got a grinding slugfest instead. And that's on two or three tries.

We had a similar experience. As written it was far too large and diffuse to keep my players interested.

If I were to run this again (and I've been sorely tempted to over the years) I'd limit the adventure to the temple ruins and a single dungeon level, maybe with a sublevel or two to keep it interesting. I'd ramp the atmosphere up to eleven, restoring the site to the grandiose, broken eldritch might it possessed in my imagination. The cover illustration was iconic. What it depicts should live up to that.