Tempted to Run Blue Rose backwards

[Desdichado]

Well, the setting asks that you pretend that people --- even a large group of people, a nation, not just a few --- can be basically good and decent and noble.

Not perfect, not a utopia...just maybe a little better than old JPL on an average day, y'know?

Some folks will have a much easier time imagining any number of wizards and dragons than imagining a world where humanity behaves a little more like it should.

To paraphrase a quote attributed to Voltaire, "I disapprove of what you do, but I will defend to the death your right to do it."

There's a difference between being tolerant, and being simply permissive. That's where Blue Rose, or the genre it's emulating, anyway, fail to understand the nature of being good, IMO. As presented, it's not about being basically good and decent and noble, it's about never making a moral stand, about never saying, "this is wrong and we won't tolerate it," because tolerance is the only good virtue that is valued anymore.

 

[JPL]

To me, the issue is sociological believability.
The particular brands of "tolerance" and "respect" and "diversity" that the setting promotes are ones that require being legislated and enforced, meaning Aldis should be a police state.
Nisarg

I think I see where you are coming from here, but I think any fiction which calls itself "romantic" requires some suspension of disbelief...or at least, some optimism about human nature.

And certainly, as soon as you reject the premise that our friend the Magic Deer is in fact the true source of goodness and wisdom, it's a bad system [as if we were to assume that Aragorn is actually more like a typical real-world monarch, in which case th Hobbits need to rise up and overthrow him and start drafting a Bill of Rights].

But....I'm not sure what is striking you as so unrealistic. Many rights we take for granted in America today had to be enforced at gunpoint even a generation ago. I'd like to think that most of us no longer practice slavery or burn witches for reasons that go beyond a fear of incarceration. I don't find it unrealistic to think that humanity could continue to evolve morally, and get to the point where homophobia is as rare as cannibalism.

 

[Arcane Runes Press]

To paraphrase a quote attributed to Voltaire, "I disapprove of what you do, but I will defend to the death your right to do it."

There's a difference between being tolerant, and being simply permissive. That's where Blue Rose, or the genre it's emulating, anyway, fail to understand the nature of being good, IMO. As presented, it's not about being basically good and decent and noble, it's about never making a moral stand, about never saying, "this is wrong and we won't tolerate it," because tolerance is the only good virtue that is valued anymore.

An interesting assertion, given the number of times people have insisted "They're only tolerant of people who believe like they do", or "they claim to be tolerant, but oppress anyone who doesn't submit to their beliefs".

It's somewhat amusung to see one poster insist Aldis is a totalitarian, authoritarian nanny state that crushes all non-conforming, dissenting viewpoints beneath it's "hoof", and another say romantic fantasy is all about never taking a stand.

Patrick Y.

 

[Desdichado]

An interesting assertion, given the number of times people have insisted "They're only tolerant of people who believe like they do", or "they claim to be tolerant, but oppress anyone who doesn't submit to their beliefs".

The difference between theory and reality.

It's somewhat amusung to see one poster insist Aldis is a totalitarian, authoritarian nanny state that crushes all non-conforming, dissenting viewpoints beneath it's "hoof", and another say romantic fantasy is all about never taking a stand.

You're misrepresenting Nisarg's position; he's said repeatedly that such a state could never exist without being a totalitarian authoritarian state. I hardly think anyone is claiming that Aldis as presented in Blue Rose is such. I don't think there's such a discrepency as you're making out. I don't always (or even often) agree with Nisarg, but I think in this case our positions are actually pretty close.

 

[JPL]

To paraphrase a quote attributed to Voltaire, "I disapprove of what you do, but I will defend to the death your right to do it."

See? How can I be cynical about humanity, when Mr. Dyal is ready to lay down his life for me?

I think I better leave this thread alone. Good day and happy gaming, gentlemen.

 

[Crothian]

I think its a safe presumption to say that anyone trying prevent the coronation has no recourse. Its not a democracy. THE MAGIC DEER HAS SPOKEN.

As such, your only option is to be a good little slave of the MAGIC DEER, or engage in active resistance against tyranny; the end result of which is a kick in the head by the MAGIC DEER and exile for you!

Who cares about democracy in a fantasy world? There aren't any. THe MAgic Deer is much more then that it is basically a god. And it is protecting against people who would do harm, it says nothing about people who object with rationale thought.

And no one is a slave. They are free to live thier life and obey the laws the land just like in any other country that exists.

 

[WayneLigon]

I don't care to be put upon for demands of chapter and verse, but does the book not say that anyone who tries to stop the coronation gets a hoofmark to the skull, and subsequent Exile from Aldis?

Nisarg

No, it's anyone attempting to harm the sovereign.

Anyone attempting to harm either the Hart or the sovereign falls insensibly to the ground before harming either. The attacker does not awaken until after the coronation and is forever marked on the face with a gray hoof print. Anyone so marked is exiled from Aldis.

Sort of like, well, pretty much anywhere else. Except that they'd probably shoot/impale/fill full of arrows anyone who tried to harm the king instead of exiling them.

 

[WayneLigon]

I think I see where you are coming from here, but I think any fiction which calls itself "romantic" requires some suspension of disbelief...or at least, some optimism about human nature.

I think that's the main reason I like it and much - though not all - of the fiction it is modeled after. Much the same reason I liked the original Star Trek series. Both posit that people will eventually grow up and stop behaving like stupid greedy children all the time. It's the basic optimist in me.

 

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

I've read a lot of Lackey's and Zimmer's fiction, but unfortunately, I've also seen a lot of what Humans have to offer. I read them duringa 6 month stay in the hospital, and for literary classes in college.

I find a lot of the arguement in here interesting. From what I gather (from posts in here and other places) most people here would be exhiled or shunned in the main kingdom.

I posted a lot of my deductions (based on insufficent evidence, I will admit) in another thread, but honestly, you don't need a land like that to have romantic fantasy. I'm curious about some of the laws and politics of the land in question, and will probably read it pretty close before I tear out the rules and hand the game to my daughter and her friends.

Personally, I think the MAGIC DEER and his TALKING ANIMAL friends have a good scam going.

 

[Nisarg]

No, it's anyone attempting to harm the sovereign.

Anyone attempting to harm either the Hart or the sovereign falls insensibly to the ground before harming either. The attacker does not awaken until after the coronation and is forever marked on the face with a gray hoof print. Anyone so marked is exiled from Aldis.

Sort of like, well, pretty much anywhere else. Except that they'd probably shoot/impale/fill full of arrows anyone who tried to harm the king instead of exiling them.

What you fail to sense is that in this setting the King is chosen by fiat of MAGIC DEER, not by democracy.
There is no outlet for civil dissent.. you can complain, I guess, if the thought police aren't out there to get you for being "shadow aligned"; but there isn't actually any vehicle for you to actually ACT on your dissent. You don't get to vote, you don't get to boycott, YOU MUST OBEY THE MAGIC DEER.

As such, the responsibility of all free men of good report being to oppose tyranny in all its manifestations, you have no choice but to try to assasinate the tyrant. Unfortunately, in this setting even that is taken away from you by divine fiat.
So basically, humans in this setting are either evil or they're the slaves of the MAGIC DEER.

Nisarg