Ten observations on Castles & Crusades compared to d20.

[Mythmere1]

Vigwyn - thanks for the summary. I definitely want to try C&C - wonder if the low cost and editing problems are not related though.

I don't think so - I think it's because TLG is a small operation with little time. The book itself has really high production value - good stitching and a gloss cover for handling coffee spills. They spent money on it to make it good. I suspect they either used a proofreader who wasn't reading it cold, or that the production was a little rushed to meet the demand after the boxed set was such a big success.

The game's catching like wildfire from what I can tell. Houston and Austin game stores (that's in Texas, y'all) emptied their PHB inventory on day one. St. Louis is also out (but the main FLGS chain didn't carry it in the first place). TLG said that they'd sell out in only a few weeks if demand stayed steady.

I hope they get the errata incorporated for a second printing before the supply runs out, because they can't produce a second printing without the errata - there has been too much weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth by those who love the game but hate the proofreading... And they've only got a few weeks, with two NEW C&C books in the pipeline. Which I'm sure are getting closer editorial scrutiny.

 

[jmucchiello]

Haste has been "gutted" in C&C in a different way than in 3.5e...

I wasn't aware haste was gutted in 3.5 since that description is identical to the 2e version. It affects a group of people who move a little farther than normal and get one extra attack with their best attack bonus. Haste was always best for fighters. 3.0 screwed that up.

What'd they do in C&C?

 

[Vigwyn the Unruly]

The book itself has really high production value - good stitching and a gloss cover for handling coffee spills.

I would put the physical quality of the book on par with FFG, maybe a little higher. I would say that it is not as good as the Scarred Lands books, except that the binding on my SL books was shot. It is definitely not in the same class physically as WotC's books. But whose are?

 

[Henry]

Cruelly shoved away yet again!

Good Akrasia, 'tis an OGL game in its own right, like Arcana Unearthed - this is its rightful home!

Besides, doesn't seem to be hurting the traffic any, and in fact seems to be slightly increasing the OGL traffic, so Fire away!

 

[Acid_crash]

I ripped the seige engine and turning for my house rules. I kicked 3e skills to the curb. However I have made some changes so they both work with 3e better. Since I have made changes to the mechanic, I now call the 3e tack on derived from the SEIGE engine the MOAT system.

Humans get three primes they can allocate whereever they want. Its not based on class in my house rules for 3e. Demihumans and all other races get two primes which they can use like the humans. Monsters that have a "as characters" entry get 2. Monsters that to not have a "as characters" entry get 3.

Class skills are noted on the sheet with the class abilities and for these the character gets to add their class level. If the character has more than one class, the character gets to add the class level appropriate to that skill. If the skill is covered by both classes the character gets to add both class levels. So a Rogue/Fighter would not loose out on climb.

Saves are different too. Instead of having 3 check modifiers, you make an ability/level check against the save target. (using this in 3e, save "DC" levels go through the roof!) If the save is reflex, you use Dex. If the save is Fortitude, you use constitution or Strength, depending on the situation. For example poison would be con, holding open the slowly closing stone door would be Str. Will saves are divided among Cha, Int, and Wis, again depending on the situation. This keeps people from putting their primes in Con, Wis, and Dex and living forever.

Turning in the MOAT engine works like this: The cleric or other class with a turning ability has to beat the base target number (12 or 18) plus the number of hit dice that the undead (or earth creature, or demon, or outsider, allowing for other 3e options) has plus any turn resistance ability. If sucessful, the cleric can turn the monster. The number of monsters that the cleric can turn is based on two factors. If the undead have no int score than the Cleric can turn 1d12 of them (adjusting for cha and greater turning abilities). If the undead are intelligent, but have less hit dice than the cleric, the cleric can turn 1d6 (+ adjustments) of them. If they are intelligent and have more hit dice than the cleric the cleric can only turn one (note no bonus adjustments). If the have 5 hit dice more than the undead they are turning, they can destroy the undead. If they have ten hit dice more they destroy the undead and do the maximum damage.

Thats MOAT!

Aaron.

MOAT Ripped....errr....I mean stolen...errr...not stolen but taken to use in my own game...well, ya know what I mean.

I like MOAT.

Really cool.

Thank you.

 

[Mythmere1]

Good Akrasia, 'tis an OGL game in its own right, like Arcana Unearthed - this is its rightful home!

Besides, doesn't seem to be hurting the traffic any, and in fact seems to be slightly increasing the OGL traffic, so Fire away!

Henry - you're a fun moderator.
That's such a gauntlet challenge - is it truly impossible to get a C&C thread that's legitimately placed in the General Forums?

*puts on thinking cap*
No. It's impossible, actually. Although I can think of lots of ways to beachhead it, being myself a stalwart adventurer of the first water. The key is to pose a question where the obvious comparison is C&C. Examples: A thread about variable level advancement vs. uniform level advancement. A thread about whether monsters should follow the same rules as characters or whether they should just be "monsters" subject to whatever the heck the CK/DM wants to put into the description (like in C&C). Any thread that talks about a "CK" when it means "DM."

Not that I'm going to annoy you by doing it, but it makes me feel much better to know that my chaotic alignment isn't totally countered by your lawful machinations.

 

[bolie]

In C&C, Haste ages you one year and you make a Con save to avoid losing 1 HP permanently. An Elf Barbarian wouldn't worry too much about it, but a Human Wizard won't want it ever...

I kind of like MOAT... might be tempted to adapt it for my own games...

Bolie IV

 

[Breakdaddy]

MOAT Ripped....errr....I mean stolen...errr...not stolen but taken to use in my own game...well, ya know what I mean.

I like MOAT.

Really cool.

Thank you.

I, too, have already started porting over my favorite aspects of C&C to my 3.5e house rules. It will be a while til we get to play with em though, as we are on a straight C&C game at the moment!

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Cool. I love the aging effects of Haste and Potions of Speed.

 

[Mythmere1]

In C&C, Haste ages you one year and you make a Con save to avoid losing 1 HP permanently. An Elf Barbarian wouldn't worry too much about it, but a Human Wizard won't want it ever...

I kind of like MOAT... might be tempted to adapt it for my own games...

Bolie IV

Eric would kill you.