Terrorism arrests on my doorstep (almost)

[Psionicist]

On the other hand, Padilla is the exception that proves the rule. Its easy to name the few people who wind up getting really screwed, although in Padilla's case it is more of an issue of him being pursued through what turned out to be the wrong process rather than him necessarily being innocent. That is the process, and I have yet to see one that I like better. This was an example of the system working, not the system failing. I never said that everyone who is arrested is guilty, after all, although at the very least Padilla certainly was a wannabe BBEG.

The "system" is working if you can throw people in jail without a trial and keep them there forever?

 

[DM_Matt]

The "system" is working if you can throw people in jail without a trial and keep them there forever?

Well, it has always been the case that the military can keep enemy combatants until the war in question is over. There was a legal dispute as to what constitutes an enemy combatant, and in this single case, in which he was both a citizen and arrested in the US, the court determined that he did not fit the definition, and he was let go. The system is working because his detention was challenged in court, and they decided NOT to keep him indefinitely (i.e. until the war is deemed over).

 

[DM_Matt]

Random searches by the police based on flimsy assumptions and draconian laws smacks of Nazism.

We need to protect our selves from BOTH kinds of terrorists.

(edited)

Because, clearly, searching people in the vicinity of a bomb scare is akin to genocide.


I hereby state for the record that Godwin's Law has been invoked, and as such the thread is no longer capable of sustaining rational conversation

 

[Crothian]

S';mon, I hope everythign turns okay. I can sort of understand the feeling. We had a slot of police activity here a few weeks back and there was a major drug bust down the street from me. It does make one think twice about where they are living and have concnerns for friends and family in the area.

 

[Bloodstone Press]

Because, clearly, searching people in the vicinity of a bomb scare is akin to genocide.

Nazism is more than just genocide.

Telling people there is a threat, and the only way to be safe from that threat is to give up their rights is a very slippery slope for any society to go down. Assuming that the government knows best how to protect you, and that it is justified in violating your rights as long as it fits some perceived "greater good" is how you end up living in tyranny. Worse, is when the government starts violating the rights of "those people" (that is, people that are not like you)

You know, back in the 1800s, police in NY city carried their firearms hidden under their coats because they didn't want to make people feel intimidated. They didn't want to create a "police state" atmosphere (so says the history channel).

Compare that with the way the cops are today. Today, they are more like gestapo agents than friendly neighborhood beat cops. Jack boots, trained in intimidation tactics, trained to be suspicious, armed, aggressive, and frequently showing a flagrant disregard for the law (I can count at least 5 recent incidents in my local area of cops drinking and driving, harassing people, assaulting people, shop-lifting, violating traffic laws, abusing their authority, and more).

They don't need any more opportunities to harass people.

I'm sure not all cops are bad, but around here, there are a LOT of bad cops. And there are a LOT of cops in general. You see them everywhere all the time. Worse, our state government has instituted a zero tolerance policy on traffic violations. Cops have been stopping people for the smallest, most menial violation lately. And this has lead to increased revenue that has completely turned the state’s finance’s around. The state has learned that it can MAKE MONEY by passing laws that fine people for driving without a seatbelt, driving without insurance, driving with a tail-light out, driving with expired tags, driving 2 MPH over the posted limit, not getting tested for emissions, not using your signal light, etc. This practice has been referred to in local newspapers as a “REVENEUE SOURCE.”

The police have become a brute squad whose main purpose is to shake people down and get money for the government. And again, they don't need any more opportunities to harass people.

Anyway, I’m getting off topic. My point is, we need to protect ourselves from abusive government that promise to protect us, if we just give up our rights. The cops have no right to search you without probable cause. Just being in the same public area as a possible terrorist is not probable cause.

I don’t want us to flee from Terrorism straight into the arms of tyranny.






.

 

[DM_Matt]

Nazism is more than just genocide.

Telling people there is a threat, and the only way to be safe from that threat is to give up their rights is a very slippery slope for any society to go down. Assuming that the government knows best how to protect you, and that it is justified in violating your rights as long as it fits some perceived "greater good" is how you end up living in tyranny. Worse, is when the government starts violating the rights of "those people" (that is, people that are not like you)

You know, back in the 1800s, police in NY city carried their firearms hidden under their coats because they didn't want to make people feel intimidated. They didn't want to create a "police state" atmosphere (so says the history channel).

Compare that with the way the cops are today. Today, they are more like gestapo agents than friendly neighborhood beat cops. Jack boots, trained in intimidation tactics, trained to be suspicious, armed, aggressive, and frequently showing a flagrant disregard for the law (I can count at least 5 recent incidents in my local area of cops drinking and driving, harassing people, assaulting people, shop-lifting, violating traffic laws, abusing their authority, and more).

They don't need any more opportunities to harass people.

I'm sure not all cops are bad, but around here, there are a LOT of bad cops. And there are a LOT of cops in general. You see them everywhere all the time. Worse, our state government has instituted a zero tolerance policy on traffic violations. Cops have been stopping people for the smallest, most menial violation lately. And this has lead to increased revenue that has completely turned the state’s finance’s around. The state has learned that it can MAKE MONEY by passing laws that fine people for driving without a seatbelt, driving without insurance, driving with a tail-light out, driving with expired tags, driving 2 MPH over the posted limit, not getting tested for emissions, not using your signal light, etc. This practice has been referred to in local newspapers as a “REVENEUE SOURCE.”

The police have become a brute squad whose main purpose is to shake people down and get money for the government. And again, they don't need any more opportunities to harass people.

Anyway, I’m getting off topic. My point is, we need to protect ourselves from abusive government that promise to protect us, if we just give up our rights. The cops have no right to search you without probable cause. Just being in the same public area as a possible terrorist is not probable cause.

I don’t want us to flee from Terrorism straight into the arms of tyranny.

.

There is a whole lot I would like to say about this, but I'm going to not participate in a post-Godwin thread. All I MUST say is that its a shock that anyone can regularly watch the Hitlerey Channel and still lack the perspective to compareaggressive enforcement of strict traffic laws and the degree to which there is racial profiling (and btw, in much of the coutnry, anti-racial profiling methods have resulted in even sillier behaviors like pulling over a whole lot of random white people for no reason to get a better racial mix), to the Gestapo. All I can imagine i that you are either regularly in trouble with the law or have been watching too many episodes of the Shield or Training Day.

Heh, I guess there were some aruguemnts there. I failed a couple will saves, made the rest. Anyway, that is all.

 

[Piratecat]

This seems like a fine time to bring this thread to a close. We sometimes let it sllip a little, but political beasts are slippery things, and can be closed at any time.