Testing a theory

[Elf Witch]

Etiquette and fork is NOT what the rules say for Knowledge: Nobility and Royalty.

I'll quote them to you from d20srd.org
"Nobility and royalty (lineages, heraldry, family trees, mottoes, personalities)"

For etiquette, I think it would subsumed within Diplomacy -- a high result meaning you did a good job of it, a low result meaning you did not.

Which fork to use I find it very hard to imagine ever mattering in any D&D game I've ever played or run.

As for being a noble, I have no problem with a player stating that's in their character's background and NOT using the Aristocrat class. I'm not going to dictate their Skill Choices either -- if they are oblivious the lineages of their fellow nobles (not 1 point in Knowledge: Nobility), that's fine, just a Rogue with a guttersnipe background can be oblivious to Knowledge: Local if they choose to be -- an unusual enough choice that it probably needs some explanation, but nevertheless a choice that the rules leave to the player.

But for your proposed character of someone DEFINED by being a warrior with lots of aristocratic skills, but not wanting to a be paladin, there's actually a class with exactly those "combat abilities as good as a Warrior with lots of aristocratic skills" characteristics -- it's call Aristocrat. My suggestion is, if that's precisely what you want to play, then just play it already.

There's a big difference between saying "You must follow these rules for this background" versus "Create your own character, but you might want to consider this class that fits PRECISELY what you say you want your character to be."

You could complain that it's not a PC class, but that would be your choice -- sometimes there are good reasons why Aristocrat, Adept, or Expert might fit a player's vision for a character's origins better than first level in an adventuring class.

The rules are a lot more flexible than you give them credit for. A Fighter could take Knowledge: Nobility as a cross-class skill. Any class can.

The problem you have where you want all your Fighter skill points to go to Swim, but you want to be good at other things, I can't help you with. Since Swim is an Untrained skill, I think it's a complete waste of Skill Points, but again, it's the player's choice. I'd be more interested in Climb and Ride, but that's just me (more dungeon and outdoors, very little ships in my campaigns).

Making trade-offs with limited resources -- whether Skill Points or spell slots -- is a key part of the game. You can't be an Olympic swimmer, the world's leading expert on noble lineages, and an excellent hand-to-hand Fighter simultaneously at first level . . . that's a feature, not a bug. You need to either choose what you really want, or do a little of each and settle for not being Michael Phelps and Hillary Clinton simultaneously at 1st level.

We run games very differently knowing how to behave in a court matters if you want to truly belong. I have spent years in the SCA and researching how high society has worked through the different ages. If you screw up badly then you will never be accepted and in most cases quietly shunned.

So in my game the skill royalty and nobility covers the ability to handle all the social aspects of court encounters. And it is required as part of a royal or noble background unless you were raised far from court by people who didn't know any better.

Diplomacy something the fighter does not get either is not the same though it can be used to smooth over what you don't know the same as bluff can carry you with enough panache to get through the encounter.

The problem with paladin is that it is a holy warrior not just a noble one and that is one thing that has always bothered me about the way the class is designed. It is supposed to represent the knights of yore where knights came from a noble or royal family a peasant had no hope of becoming a knight. Yet that is not a restriction anyone can become a paladin. Also it does not fit every concept of knights being the best warriors and leaders of armies.

If your goal is to be the party meat shield but you would like the ability to be more than just the dumb grunt then giving up the feats and hit points and weapon proficiency just to be able to role play being a fighter of a noble background then taking enough levels in aristocrat to matter really hurts your ability to be the meat shield.

If you are going to force it this way at least let them take the Courtier class from Rokugan which gives them decent hit points, extra gold and +4 to all social skills used in a social situation last through the entire game. Plus an heirloom weapon.

Oh please at a 26 point buy a fighter needs to put his meager points in strength or dex and then next in con. I then I would suggest wisdom because a fighters will saves are pretty low. You don't have much left to put in either charisma or intelligence so if you have a 10 in intelligence you start the game off with 12 skill points so you can spend 4 of those to have 2 ranks.

No it is not that I want all my skill points to go to swim it is that I have found that all the other choices open are very rarely used and with the minus 6 to climb, jump, swim it seems pointless to spread them out because why bother you will never be really good at those things. So I usually pick swim or intimidate if my charisma is not in minuses which it often is since that is the dump stat for most fighters.

The games I play in are not just dungeon crawls and killing things and taking their loot there is a lot of political intrigue, religious strife and maneuvering as well as puzzles, mysteries and other non fighting aspects and every other class except for the fighter and the barbarian can at least participate with a better chance of being successful than the fighter, all he does is swing his sword and that is it. Hence why we find them boring and no one will play one by the RAW.