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D&D General Thaco the angry clown... really?

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DarkCrisis

Adventurer
I didn't call you a liar. I was insinuating only that this newer player you're referring to most likely gets their faux indignation from a grognard who himself is poutraging over this Thaco nothingburger.
Ohhh sorry man misread your reply.

As I recall they were upset over stuff from the 1E PHB. I didnt dig real deep into the matter.
 

Was browsing Twitter and again saw a post from a newer player about how "anyone who plays AD&D is automatically a red flag and probably sexist and/or racist".
Is it concerning to you that a newer player would have this impression? Because there is, undoubtedly, a reactionary element in the OSR/AD&D scene, as typified by Pundit and his site. So, for those of us who enjoy those games and style of play, it's on us to do a better job representing it to new members of the hobby.
 

Was browsing Twitter and again saw a post from a newer player about how "anyone who plays AD&D is automatically a red flag and probably sexist and/or racist".

Why I think the Thaco clown joke just adds fuel to a fire that divides gamers as it paints "old gamers" as joyless clowns with bad ideas. Despite what WotC may or may not have meant by the character.
I think it'd be more appropriate to be angry at the people who wrap themselves in the AD&D/OSR flag and then say racist/sexist/bigoted crap (for example, three new slurs) than the caricature that doesn't even reference that behavior to the point that it doesn't actually make sense to try and link it with that perception.
 

billd91

Hobbit on Quest (he/him)
Is it concerning to you that a newer player would have this impression? Because there is, undoubtedly, a reactionary element in the OSR/AD&D scene, as typified by Pundit and his site. So, for those of us who enjoy those games and style of play, it's on us to do a better job representing it to new members of the hobby.
While I think it's incumbent on everybody to not be dicks in the hobby, regardless of representing the OSR/AD&D scene, LARPers, 5e fans, or whatever other subset, Pundit and his ilk shouldn't be putting you in the position to have to be the better face. And, honestly, we (and observers on Twitter) shouldn't be basing our (their) impressions on the OSR crowd on just those chumps. That's intellectually lazy on our (their) part.
 




This Effin’ GM

Adventurer
Yeah. The same two people keep trying to push the narrative that Thac0 is a stand in for Pundit and I would put money on one of those two people being a sock puppet for Pundit so he can get people to agree with the sentiment and then go back to his own forum to say how there’s a whole thread about him being Thac0.

Which he is doing, btw.

I know who pundit is and when I read that Thac0 joke, he was the furthest thing from my mind. My immediate and still persistant thought is “this is the personification of a bad rule. He’s grumpy because he has no use anymore. He’s hired as a ‘gatekeeper’ who the story clearly allows you to bypass in a dozen ways. The funny thing is the story says he is hired to be a guard but doesn’t actually guard nor make any claims about his own self importance. Just blows a bubble pipe and doesn’t like kids (a CLASSIC clown trope btw).

To me, Thac0 the clown is exactly what Thac0 the mechanic is: this old grouch that haunts the games terminology and that no one looks back on fondly. And that is it.
 


Every time I have to double-check an OSR creator to make sure they're not a garbage person, when they are garbage 90% of the time they show up in an interview or article on Pundit's site.

But yeah, considering the sheer amount of venom he pours into his articles, I have no problem with him being mocked...but I don't think Thac0 the Clown = Pundit. There aren't enough references other than a general outline that could apply equally to any number of people. For one thing, Thac0 can probably go for ten minutes without complaining about swine or forges.

And if it's about RPGPundit, he has it coming for him and it's definitely not "punching down". His site (holy crap his site! I accidentally found myself on it a few months back, not knowing what its deal was, and was simultaneously amazed and horrified) is him and a bunch of other bigoted grognards whining about "woke D&D" and "cancel culture mobs", spreading dangerous misinformation, and banning anyone that doesn't align with their beliefs for being a "sockpuppet". Oh, and that douchebag Zak S. is also still allowed on his site.

If Thaco the Clown is talking about the RPGPundit, he deserves everything that's coming to him. Calling him a clown or a gatekeeping, out of touch bigot isn't "punching down" or even really a personal attack. It's more of an observation.
 
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CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
Don’t get me wrong I am absolutely here for a pedantic discussion on the pronunciation of Thac0 (pronounced here as “thack-emoji big nose”)
I've seen it pronounced a couple of ways. Back in the 80s and early 90s, we always pronounced it
\ˌənˈwēldē \

Since the advent of the Internet, most folks have taken to pronouncing it
\ ˈan-tə-ˌkwā-təd \

Both are correct, IMO. ;)
 






Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
THAC0 was an improvement on the attack matrices you had to look up in the 1e DMG previous to it.

What? NO! Only with the tables (mmm... tables....) could you get the joy of the repeating 20!

That's right- a first level fighter needs a 20 to hit AC 0, and -1, -2, -3, -4, and -5 ... but -6?

That's a 21 for ya!

I'd like to see Thac0 put that in his pipe and smoke it! Some kind of Johnny Come Lately!
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
Publisher
Wow. I miss a day and suddenly there is a discussion that THAC0 the Clown is Pundit? Based on....him saying so?

That guy has to make everything about him. He's always done that. Always tried to portray himself as a victim while ironically victim blaming actual victims. He's the type of person who thinks any type of exposure is good exposure, and goes to desperate levels to try to insert himself as a topic of the discussion. Despite his following, he doesn't care one whit about them or those that defend him. That was evidenced as recently as when the whole Venger thing went down last week and how a convention was banning him (or something like that), and that crowd were all "Buy all Venger's stuff! Support him and this attack on cancel culture!", and Pundit chimed in and said, "No, don't buy his stuff, buy mine instead."

The guy is transparent in his motivations.

So no, I don't believe this clown is about him personally unless the creators come out and say it.

But....

Even if it was, who cares? This is a guy who has endorsed and espoused some really awful things. He is the owner of a site that coddles blatant and unapologetic racism, bigotry, and advocacy of violence towards political enemies (that's not hyperbole, posters have enthusiastically made these comments, and there's an entire thread devoted to the topic). His defense is "I don't ban any free speech", which frankly is a cop out to take responsibility (which he has, as the owner of the site). Tacit approval is still approval. If you let in nazis and racists into your house over and over, you don't get to say how you don't support them. No one buys that.

Note: I'm not saying everyone on that site is like that, or shares those views, but there are several, and they get tacit support and encouragement to continue making those comments.
 

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