Thanks for the Fochlucan Lyrist!!!

[JRR_Talking]

how would u build this using a scout rather than rogue, and not 'degenerating' ? I guess u wld be scout5/druid1/bard x? before u took Foh Lyr.

at our game last night we were discussing this PrC

J

 

[Darklone]

how would u build this using a scout rather than rogue, and not 'degenerating' ? I guess u wld be scout5/druid1/bard x? before u took Foh Lyr.

Scout5/Brd4/Drd1 combination yupp. Well, it looks rather weak but I like stylish classes with many possibilities. A chars weakness you can always be compensated by weird ideas driving the DM insane

 

[GwydapLlew]

I'm working my way up to Fochlucan lyrist right now. It can be a bit frustrating at lower levels, because the need for multiclassing keeps you fairly weak until you hit 10th, but I enjoy the combination immensely.

My build is Bardic Sage 3/Druid 2/Human Paragon 3/Rogue 2/Fochlucan lyrist 10

It's weak on the spellcasting side, and I didn't get any BAB until 4th level, but I'm enjoying it.

 

[Aus_Snow]

I don't like the Evasion prerequisite. All considerations of power levels aside, that's the thing that bugs me about this PrC. I can see some people at least have no problem with that, and in fact like it. I just don't.

It doesn't feel right to me, doesn't sit well with the other aspects. A Bard/Druid hybrid: cool. A Bard/Druid hybrid with an arbitrary (1e-ish, I guess) need for Rogue 2/whatever: not so much.

 

[amethal]

Our party's fochlucan lyrist is ex-monk 2/sorcerer 6/druid 2/bard 1 (with ascetic mage feat for an insane AC)

I get the impression the character optimisation board thinks alignment changes are too cheesy, but it was only the once, and only from LN to N

The character was a replacement for a previous character the player had retired as too limited for high level play, so started at 15th level.

I imagine it would have been a nightmare at low levels (a monk whose highest score is in charisma .....), been fairly useless until the ascetic mage feat at 6th level (when at least the AC would be keeping it alive without leaching the party's resources) and raised an awful lot of eyebrows with the druid and bard levels.

At high levels it plays extremely well.

 

[JRR_Talking]

had little play on etools. lyrist built for speed and flavour. (enormous leap into combat from surprise in the hope of ganing cleaves et al). lots speed spells to run away when it all goes wrong!!

Any thoughts?

Male Elf, Wood Sco5/Brd4/Drd1/FocLyr1: CR 11; Medium Humanoid (Elf);
HD 5d8+5(Scout) , 4d6+4(Bard) , 1d8+1(Druid) , 1d6+1(Fochlucan Lyrist) ; hp 59;
Init +9; Spd 40; AC:22 (Flatfooted:22 Touch:16);
Atk +9/4 base melee, +11/6 base ranged;
+10/5 (1d8+4+1d6, +1 Longsword);
SQ: Immunity: Sleep Effects (Ex), Low-light Vision (Ex), +2 Saves vs. Enchantment Spells and Effects;
AL N; SV Fort +7, Ref +15, Will +12; STR 14, DEX 18, CON 12, INT 10, WIS 14, CHA 16.

Skills: Climb +2, Decipher Script +7, Diplomacy +10, Gather Information +10, Jump +15, Knowledge (Nature) +9, Listen +5, Perform (String Instruments) +16, Search +6, Sleight of Hand +10, Spot +7, Survival +4, Tumble +15.

Feats: Armor Proficiency: light, Armor Proficiency: medium, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Initiative, Leap Attack, Power Attack, Shield Proficiency, Simple Weapon Proficiency.

Spells Known (Brd 3/4/2):
0 -- Detect Magic, Mage Hand, Open/Close, Read Magic, Resistance, Songbird;
1st -- Accelerated Movement, Crabwalk, Cure Light Wounds, Expeditious Retreat;
2nd -- Bladeweave, Heroism, Mirror Image.

Spells Prepared (Drd 4/3):
0 - Create Water, Cure Minor Wounds, Guidance x2;
1st - Climb Walls, Goodberry, Longstrider.

Possessions:
Weapons: +1 Longsword: Holy, Frost (32,315 gp).
Armor: +2 Chain shirt (4,250 gp).
Goods: Coin: gp (715) (715 gp).
Magic: Wondrous: Amulet of Natural Armor +1 (2,000 gp); Ring: Protection +1 (2,000 gp); Wondrous: Cloak of Resistance +1 (1,000 gp); Wondrous: Eternal Wand: 1st-level spell (820 gp); Wondrous: Gloves of Dexterity +2 (4,000 gp); Wondrous: Instrument of the Bards, Fochluchan Bandore (1,900 gp).

Animal, Eagle, Male Animal, Eagle : CR 1/2; Small Animal ; HD 1d8+1 ( Animal) ; hp 5; Init + 2; Spd 10, Fly, Average 80; AC 14; Atk + 1 base melee, + 3 base ranged; +3/-2 ( 1d3, 2 Claw; 1d4, Bite ); SQ: Low-light Vision (Ex); AL N; SV Fort + 1, Ref + 2, Will + 2; STR 10, DEX 15, CON 12, INT 2, WIS 14, CHA 6.
Skills: Hide +6, Spot +14.
Feats: Weapon Finesse.

 

[GwydapLlew]

It doesn't feel right to me, doesn't sit well with the other aspects. A Bard/Druid hybrid: cool. A Bard/Druid hybrid with an arbitrary (1e-ish, I guess) need for Rogue 2/whatever: not so much.

I can see your point, but to me part of the 'cool' factor for the Fochlucan lyrist is that it does an excellent job of recreating the 1st edition bard. Way back in those days, you had to be a Fighter/Thief/Druid to become a bard (arguably, it was the first PrC ). The full BAB gives you the illusion of Fighter levels, the bard and druid requirements keep the intent of the class going, and the rogue levels represents the thief aspect.

Of course, for a champion of the poor and of nature who relies of wits, stealth, and swordplay to accomplish his goals, it's also not bad either.

 

[Rhun]

I can see your point, but to me part of the 'cool' factor for the Fochlucan lyrist is that it does an excellent job of recreating the 1st edition bard. Way back in those days, you had to be a Fighter/Thief/Druid to become a bard (arguably, it was the first PrC ). The full BAB gives you the illusion of Fighter levels, the bard and druid requirements keep the intent of the class going, and the rogue levels represents the thief aspect.

I just flipped to page 117 of my AD&D PHB to check...the 1E Bard required you to become a 5th level fighter, then switch to thief and become a 5th level thief. After that, you would begin your studies as a druid, but would effectively enter the bard class at that point.

After re-reading all that, I think the FL prestige class does an excellent job of recreating this.

 

[Darklone]

had little play on etools. lyrist built for speed and flavour. (enormous leap into combat from surprise in the hope of ganing cleaves et al). lots speed spells to run away when it all goes wrong!!

Male Elf, Wood Sco5/Brd4/Drd1/FocLyr1: CR 11; Medium Humanoid (Elf);
HD 5d8+5(Scout) , 4d6+4(Bard) , 1d8+1(Druid) , 1d6+1(Fochlucan Lyrist) ; hp 59;
Init +9; Spd 40; AC:22 (Flatfooted:22 Touch:16);
Atk +9/4 base melee, +11/6 base ranged;
+10/5 (1d8+4+1d6, +1 Longsword);
SQ: Immunity: Sleep Effects (Ex), Low-light Vision (Ex), +2 Saves vs. Enchantment Spells and Effects;
AL N; SV Fort +7, Ref +15, Will +12; STR 14, DEX 18, CON 12, INT 10, WIS 14, CHA 16.
...
Feats: Armor Proficiency: light, Armor Proficiency: medium, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Initiative, Leap Attack, Power Attack, Shield Proficiency, Simple Weapon Proficiency.

Spells Known (Brd 3/4/2):
1st -- Accelerated Movement, Crabwalk, Cure Light Wounds, Expeditious Retreat;
2nd -- Bladeweave, Heroism, Mirror Image.

Spells Prepared (Drd 4/3):
0 - Create Water, Cure Minor Wounds, Guidance x2;
1st - Climb Walls, Goodberry, Longstrider.

Rolled stats of interest: Str 16, Dex 20, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 15.

Why do you pick CLW for the bard levels? I'd do that with the druid

I guess that build needs a better Con. I'd drop Great Cleave for Imp Toughness.

 

[JRR_Talking]

Rolled stats of interest: Str 16, Dex 20, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 15.

Why do you pick CLW for the bard levels? I'd do that with the druid

I guess that build needs a better Con. I'd drop Great Cleave for Imp Toughness.

betta than my 32 point pick

the CLW i guess cos it would heal more and i add druid at 10th rather than early on

HP i thought were ok (betta than book example)

had visions of huge jump into bad guys , killing the leader, and then mopping up his minions with cleave et al.

only have complete n eberron for etools. Im sure there loads better options.

with so many classes and good saves as an FL, the overall saves for it look pretty good.