Thanks for the Fochlucan Lyrist!!!

[RangerWickett]

Why use rogue? Can't shadowdancer get evasion in 2 levels, and be much cooler about it?

 

[Darklone]

Yeah, the link Nifft nicely provided above gives many nice examples how to fulfill the various prerequisites. Master Thrower looks nice too and they even have classes with evasion and without spellcaster loss.

 

[Nyeshet]

Why use rogue? Can't shadowdancer get evasion in 2 levels, and be much cooler about it?

Hmm, that's actually a good point - although I would point out that the high requirement in ranks for Hide would reduce the number of Druid levels used (as Hide is not a pre-req, and I for one am loath to waste skill ranks on cross class skills).

How about a Cloistered Cleric X (bardic knowledge, divine caster) and Shadow Dancer 2 (evasion)? We still need a class for arcane casting, and Shadow Dancer needs to be preceded by levels in Bard, Ranger, &/or Rogue to get the necessary skills in Move Silently / Hide. Bard works nicely, as it provides the skill points, arcane casting, and stacks with Cloistered Cleric for Bardic Knowledge. Indeed, the scholastic bard - or whatever that variant was called - could work quite nicely with the Cloistered Cleric. Hmm, didn't the Archivist have a Dark Knowledge ability similar to Bardic Knowledge? Even if not, were I DMing I might allow it as a replacement.


Anyone else notice that on the WotC site in the Product Excerts section Heroes of Horror is not listed? I had to do a search on the site to find the Excerts from that book . . . .


In any case, the Archivist might make an interesting base class to use in building towards the FL - although, as mentioned, its Dark Knowledge is more a cross between Bardic Knowledge and Bardic Music rather than a true replacement for Bardic Knowledge.

Hmm, so there are at least two possible classes that seem to mix lore and divine casting. I wonder if there are any classes that mix Evasion with arcane casting? At present the only core classes I can think of that grant Evasion are Barbarian, Monk, Rogue, and Scout. I'm sure there must be others, however. Using Shadow Dancer to get Evasion is a nice idea, though, so perhaps something like: Archivist X / xxxx X / Shadow Dancer 2 / FL X could work (replacing Archivist with Cloistered Cleric if necessary)? The idea, of course, would be to keep Bard and Druid out of the mix if possible.


As an aside, why does the Druidic Language exist, anyway? I cannot think of any other class that has its own language, and the only other class that is as excluding of a extra-class trait (skill, feat) is the fighter (with Weapon Specialization). Personally, I don't think Weapon Specialization should be limited to Fighters (perhaps having a BAB +4 requirement instead), and I think Druids instead should have Sylvan (the language of fae and wild creatures) as their "secret" language. In fact the more I think of it, the more likely I feel I would allow one to take Sylvan to qualify for anything requiring Druidic - but that's just me and my views. I'm sure some might disagree.

 

[BSF]

As an aside, why does the Druidic Language exist, anyway? I cannot think of any other class that has its own language, and the only other class that is as excluding of a extra-class trait (skill, feat) is the fighter (with Weapon Specialization). Personally, I don't think Weapon Specialization should be limited to Fighters (perhaps having a BAB +4 requirement instead), and I think Druids instead should have Sylvan (the language of fae and wild creatures) as their "secret" language. In fact the more I think of it, the more likely I feel I would allow one to take Sylvan to qualify for anything requiring Druidic - but that's just me and my views. I'm sure some might disagree.

Sacred cows - Druidic is supposed to be an analogue to the Ogham. In 1st Ed it was a secret society language like Thieves Cant. It just hasn't been done away with yet.

Back on topic, I like the Fochulan Lyrist. It does a good job simulating 1st Ed Bard.

 

[Nifft]

What of it?

It's ... useful?

Qualifying for the Foch Lyr is non-trivial. Doing it in a way that doesn't suck is even less trivial.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Darklone]

Kinda bump:

Is there any possible legal way how I might get that Green whisperer class without buying that dragon #311?

I mean, is it posted somewhere or on any website?