tharizdun's prison plane

[messy]

allo

ok, i'm confused. tharizdun's prison plane is a demiplane, but in dragon magazine 353, it says that the prison exists on the ethereal plane. if that's the case, it's not really a demiplane, is it?

messy

 

[Charwoman Gene]

Demiplanes exist in the deep ethereal.

 

[grodog]

It really depends on what planar cosmology you're using, and how you're defining Tharizdun.

The Demi-Plane of Imprisonment was created in the 1e Manual of the Planes, and it's not explicitly linked to Tharizdun there. It's hinted at, certainly, but not a perfect match either.

BITD, demi-planes didn't only exist in the Ethereal either, FWIW.

For some good inspiration on Tharizudun, check out Chris Siren's Gord site @ Gord's Greyhawk as well as Rob Kuntz's Dark Druids adventure (scroll down ~2/3 of the page) and a related download on Canonfire! @ http://www.canonfire.com/cfhtml/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=92

 

[Aeolius]

I always liked the idea that Tharizdun's prison plane was actually Ravenloft.

 

[fireinthedust]

I always liked the idea that Tharizdun's prison plane was actually Ravenloft.

In what way? Like how Vecna got nabbed? Or would he be a dark power?
If he was a domain lord, like Vecna (who was barely contained), I think he'd just tear free and eat Ravenloft. Nom nom nom.

In 4e he's in the Astral Sea, if that helps (well, I think so).


I personally (IMHO) think Tharizdun is too chaotic/entropy to really be involved with Ravenloft. Admittedly, Ravenloft loses a lot of punch if it's just chaotic evil, rather than insideous and cunning.
For the same reason Orcus wouldn't fit in there, using the stats. Ravenloft was always a place where the villains were relatively low-level (werewolves, vampires, "frankenstein" golems), and the horror was in the reveal. Having someone who isn't in any way a reflection of humanity, of the PCs even, I don't know how they'd relate enough to be truly scary.

 

[Shemeska]

Demiplanes existed within the deep ethereal like the bubbles in the froth atop an ocean of raw, untapped potential and possibility. That was the 2e conception of the topic, with a lot of discussion and detail in "A Guide to the Ethereal Plane". Wonderful book. Prior to that, not a lot of discussion on what demiplanes were, their origins, etc. in the 1e material.

3e sort of muddied the conceptual definition by suddenly dropping demiplanes in the Astral as well, and making the deep ethereal entirely optional. Easy enough to come up for conceptual rationale for the Astral demiplanes, but given the depth of the 2e material, and the generally much darker and creepier vibe that the trackless sea of the ethereal deep gave off, I kept with that location for the demiplane of imprisonment (which was where it was mentioned in 2e as well).

As for directly linking big T to that demiplane, there were some hints in prior lore, and I built off of them, making the link between the two overt, adding in some flavor inspired by the Black Cyst from RttToEE.

 

[malraux]

In 4e he's in the Astral Sea, if that helps (well, I think so).

Not that its come up in my campaign, but for me, I think of him as being imprisoned with the seed of elemental evil at the bottom of the Abyss, which is infinite in depth, making it impossible to escape in a non-infinite period of time. No idea what the official cannon is at this point though.

 

[Shemeska]

I personally (IMHO) think Tharizdun is too chaotic/entropy to really be involved with Ravenloft. Admittedly, Ravenloft loses a lot of punch if it's just chaotic evil, rather than insideous and cunning.

I wouldn't link any deity to Ravenloft in the first place, largely because the very presence of true outsiders (fiends, celestials, etc) actively warps the essence of the demiplane, almost as if Ravenloft wasn't built with them in mind. It's focused on a very mortal conception of evil, and the presence of fiends for instance literally hijacks the local reality the place presents, which at least to me would suggest a creator or creators who might not understand the sort of alignment that such a being represents on a physical, manifest level.

And in a Ravenloft game I'd also promptly backtrack and muddy the issue with something else, refusing to pin down an answer at all.