That's not what gamist means!

[1Mac]

Part 1: The Pedantry

"Gamist" does not mean what you likely think it means; that is, it does not mean "like a boardgame," or "reminiscent of a video game." "Gamist" is a term from Ron Edwards' infamous GNS theory and refers to playing a game with the intention of addressing and overcome challenges:

"The players, armed with their understanding of the game and their strategic acumen, have to Step On Up. Step On Up requires strategizing, guts, and performance from the real people in the real world. This is the inherent "meaning" or agenda of Gamist play...

The in-game characters, armed with their skills, priorities, and so on, have to face a Challenge, which is to say, a specific Situation in the imaginary game-world. Challenge is about the strategizing, guts, and performance of the characters in this imaginary game-world."

I know GNS isn't everyone's cup of tea, but the point is that "gamist" has nothing to do with strategically moving miniatures, or how much your least favorite RPG is like World of Warcraft.

Part 2: The Soapbox

Yes language evolves, but the reason to resist shifts in meaning is when the word in question has a unique meaning that is at risk of being lost. "Gamist" is a useful word that describes a particular playstyle and design goal, and if it becomes another synonym for "gamelike" or "gamey," then our ability to express that meaning is severely compromised.

See also "literally" coming to mean "figuratively."

 

[RangerWickett]

Literally doesn't mean "figuratively," even when misused. It's now just being used to emphasize something.

"I was literally knocked off my feet" means "You know that expression, 'I was knocked off my feet.' Well it was like that only moreso."

Anyway, I assumed everyone knew "gamist" meant "played as a game to challenge the players in the real world," in contrast to "creating a believable simulation of a fictional world" or "working collaboratively to create an interesting narrative."

 

[Nifft]

Part 1: The Pedantry

"Gamist" does not mean what you likely think it means; that is, it does not mean "like a boardgame," or "reminiscent of a video game." "Gamist" is a term from Ron Edwards' infamous GNS theory and refers to playing a game with the intention of addressing and overcome challenges:


I know GNS isn't everyone's cup of tea, but the point is that "gamist" has nothing to do with strategically moving miniatures, or how much your least favorite RPG is like World of Warcraft.

... except that wargames ("strategically moving miniatures") and WoW are both emphatically focused on addressing and overcoming challenges. To the exclusion of all other factors.

To put it another way, the games you are complaining that people conflate with "gamism" are, in fact, very much "gameist" games.

Cheers, -- N

 

[jonesy]

Yes language evolves, but the reason to resist shifts in meaning is when the word in question has a unique meaning that is at risk of being lost.

No, the reason to resist shifts is when the meaning is still useful. I say good riddance. Even Ron Edwards has stopped using GNS.

 

[Morrus]

It's not a real word, as far as I know. So I guess it means whatever someone wants it to mean.

To me, it clearly means something different to what it means to you. I don't think Mr. Edwards coined the term, because I'm pretty sure I remember hearing and using it long before I discovered teh intrawebs. And the above description isn't how we used the word.

 

[1Mac]

Anyway, I assumed everyone knew "gamist" meant "played as a game to challenge the players in the real world," in contrast to "creating a believable simulation of a fictional world" or "working collaboratively to create an interesting narrative."

That's not quite right: gamism means to challenge the player-characters, not the players. It's a subtle distinction, but it's why DnD is gamist, while Risk isn't.

 

[1Mac]

It's not a real word, as far as I know. So I guess it means whatever someone wants it to mean.

That's awfully gamist of you .

 

[S'mon]

I have never seen "gamist" used to mean "like a video game" until the OP just now. People use Narrativist and to a lesser extent Simulationist to mean a variety of different things; Gamist is the one term of GNS or GDS that seems to me to be both clear and used consistently.

Whether Edwards uses it or not is irrelevant, people were using it (and Simulationist) long before Edwards came along.

 

[S'mon]

That's not quite right: gamism means to challenge the player-characters, not the players. It's a subtle distinction, but it's why DnD is gamist, while Risk isn't.

Exactly incorrect.

The whole point of the term is to describe the point of games: the players are supposed to step-on-up and try to win. To defeat the challenge.

 

[El Mahdi]

"Gamist" does not mean what you likely think it means...

I find this inconceivable...